48
   

Do you boycott certain businesses?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 09:51 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David,

Quote:
In Congress, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. — The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 10:05 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Who's talking about guns? That's already allowed by our Constitution.

Tell you what? That you don't understand the Constitution?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 10:25 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Who's talking about guns?
I 'm talking about EQUAL RIGHTS
for everything in the Constitution, including gun possession.

I ask again:
do u support equal rights for everyone
to keep and bear arms in the streets, for self defense???





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 10:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

David,

Quote:
In Congress, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. — The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
That is NOT the Constitution.
U alleged that it is in THE CONSTITUTION.

U have exhibited the Declaration of Independence.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 10:51 am
@OmSigDAVID,
How do you separate the declaration of independence from the constitution?
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 03:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
How do you separate the declaration of independence from the constitution?
Thay are not together.

Thay are 2 different things.

1 was to Declare independence (a letter to the King of England) in 1776.

The other was to constitute government in America in 1787.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 07:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You wrote,
Quote:
Thay are not together.

Thay are 2 different things.


They are "together." Without the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution would not exist; America would not exist.

The Declaration of Independence gave America birth as a sovereign nation.

The Constitution would be meaningless without the Declaration of Independence.

OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 08:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
Thay are not together.

Thay are 2 different things.


They are "together." Without the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution would not exist; America would not exist.

The Declaration of Independence gave America birth as a sovereign nation.

The Constitution would be meaningless without the Declaration of Independence.
Thay are still not together, regardless.

Thay serve 2 distinct functions.
Thay were 11 years apart.

Another Republic existed in America
under the Articles of Confederation in between

our Declaration of Independence
and the subsequent Constitution of the USA.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 08:50 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You can't train an old fool new tricks. Without the Declaration of Independence, there wouldn't be a US Constitution.

The articles of confederation is an interim constitution.

What you can't seem to grasp is that without the Declaration of Independence, even the articles of confederation would have been null and void.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 08:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You can't train an old fool new tricks. Without the Declaration of Independence, there wouldn't be a US Constitution.

The articles of confederation is an interim constitution.

What you can't seem to grasp is that without the Declaration of Independence, even the articles of confederation would have been null and void.




Right....so what you can say is that the declaration is a founding document, that it represents our values and the intent of the founders . What you can not say is that the declaration is the Constitution, is the supreme law of the land.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 09:40 pm
Quote:
-- Fresh from lunch at Chick-Fil-A, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty said that officials' public objections to the Christian-owned fast food chain are "chilling."
"Now you have the police power of government intimidating and threatening people, being used to intimidate and threaten people, based on their free speech rights and their religious views," Pawlenty said Saturday of city officials' objections to president Dan Cathy's public disavowal of gay marriage. "I mean it’s chilling. I mean it’s stunning, it is jaw-dropping. And so I think strong people who see this need to stand up and say no we don’t do that in the United States."


http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/28/13010224-pawlenty-calls-officials-thumbs-down-on-chick-fil-a-chilling-jaw-dropping?lite&__utma=14933801.1018700146.1342397429.1343514111.1343532947.40&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343532947&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1343028489.23.2.utmcsr=google|utmccn=(organic)|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=msnbc&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=184146598

It is certainly time for all good americans to come to the aid of our country, to reject totalitarianism .
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 09:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
Do you understand anything about "foundation?" The Constitution exists only because of the Declaration of Independence. That's a FACT that seems to escape many of you. The Constitution cannot exist without the Declaration of Independence, no more than you can exist without your mother giving you birth.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  4  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 11:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You can't train an old fool new tricks. Without the Declaration of Independence,
there wouldn't be a US Constitution.
That does not change the fact that u FALSELY alleged
that language of the Declaration of Independence
was in the Constitution, and now u are trying to cover up your mistake.
That will not work.



cicerone imposter wrote:
The articles of confederation is an interim constitution.
NONSENSE. It was the constitution of a full plenary republic
which was subsequently abandoned, not "interim".
U seek (unsuccessfully) to conceal your ignorance.




cicerone imposter wrote:
What you can't seem to grasp is that without the Declaration of Independence,
even the articles of confederation would have been null and void.
No. Thay woud not have come into existence.
That is not the same thing.
Something cannot be nullified, if it never existed in the first place.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 11:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You can't train an old fool new tricks. Without the Declaration of Independence, there wouldn't be a US Constitution.

The articles of confederation is an interim constitution.

What you can't seem to grasp is that without the Declaration of Independence,
even the articles of confederation would have been null and void.


hawkeye10 wrote:

Right....so what you can say is that the declaration is a founding document,
It is not a document.
It is an instrument.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 11:14 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The two documents have much in common - they were established by the same people (sometimes literally the same exact people, though mostly just in terms of contemporaries). But they differ more than they do resemble each other, when one looks at the details. Comparing them can give us insight into what the Framers found important in 1781, and what they changed their minds on by 1788.


Yes, it was an "interim" document. The framers - the same people, changed their minds to write the Constitution.

BTW, I'm not relenting on anything about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. They stand together no matter how you wish to perceive them.

The Constitution does not exist without the Declaration of Independence.

Those are FACTS. Get over it.
OmSigDAVID
 
  4  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 11:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The two documents have much in common - they were established by the same people (sometimes literally the same exact people, though mostly just in terms of contemporaries). But they differ more than they do resemble each other, when one looks at the details. Comparing them can give us insight into what the Framers found important in 1781, and what they changed their minds on by 1788.


cicerone imposter wrote:
Yes, it was an "interim" document.
The framers - the same people, changed their minds to write the Constitution.
That does NOT make it "interim"; it makes it abandoned,
and it was never a "document". It was an instrument.






cicerone imposter wrote:
BTW, I'm not relenting on anything about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
They stand together no matter how you wish to perceive them.

The Constitution does not exist without the Declaration of Independence.

Those are FACTS. Get over it.
The FACT is that u lied
about language from the Declaration of Independence,
falsely alleging that it was in the Constitution.

Now u are trying (unsuccessfully) to distract attention
from your IGNORANCE.





David
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jul, 2012 11:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
with one exception only the declaration does not have the force of law. The Constitution is the premier legal document of our society. Your argument that the declaration is so on par with the Constitution that in can be called a part of it attests to what appears to be your advancing Alzheimers.

Quote:
At PrawfsBlawg, Eric Johnson writes that the Declaration of Independence ought to have the force of law. In at least one important ways, it does.

In order to be a Representative, or Senator, a person needs to be a “Citizen of the United States” for 7 years, and 9 years respectively. Who was a “Citizen of the United States” for 9 years in 1789 when the First Congress met? How did one constitutionally become a “citizen of the United States” prior to the ratification of the Constitution on June 21, 1788? For purposes of citizenship, and the Constitution, when did the United States of America begin? The answer to these questions begins in the year 1776.

In Original Citizenship, published in PENNumbra earlier this year, I looked at how the Declaration of Independence, and various theories of citizenship through consent that prevailed during the revolutionary era, might provide an answer to the constitutional requirements of Representatives and Senators.

The citizenship of those who lived in the United States before the Declaration was primarily determined under two doctrines that derived from Lockean social compact theory.17 The first theory postulated that by virtue of residing in theUnited States at the moment of independence and separation from Great Britain, a person automatically became a citizen, regardless ofwhether that person was a Yankee or a dissenting loyalist. The second theory contended that citizenship and allegiances could not be imposedon anyone, because to do so would be contrary to the spirit ofthe Declaration. Rather, following independence, a person could choose or “elect” whether he wanted to become a U.S. citizen.18 Alternatively, he could exercise his right of expatriation within a reasonable period of time, and thereby decline citizenship. For the most part, all states adopted a naturalization policy that mirrored one of these strands.

Additionally, I consider how these theories impacted early notions of citizenship of the United States at three critical junctures: before the ratification of the Constitution, during the first Congress, and following the first Congress.

First, in treason cases, in order to distinguish between a disloyal citizen and a foreign alien combatant, a court needed to determine if the accused was a U.S. citizen. Second, because “[e]ach House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members,”19 early records of contested elections in the House and Senate help explicate the contours of the original understanding of U.S. citizenship for House qualifications. Third, in cases interpreting Jay’s Treaty,20 the courts needed to establish whether a claimant was a citizen at the time of the Revolution in order to determine if certain barriers to recovery existed.

This dynamic is not limited to the qualifications of Representatives and Senators 200 years ago. This early understanding of citizenship, and the legal authority of the Continental Congress to act as a sovereign over the colonies/states and new citizens, has direct implications on many aspects of modern constitutional jurisprudence–including the 9th, 10th, 11th, and 14th Amendments.

The Declaration of Indepedence, at least in this limited context, is a legal document, that has the force of law

http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2011/07/the-declaration-of-independence-and-the-force-of-law.html
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 12:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
You're still missing the point; without the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution is meaningless. The Constitution is "based" on the Declaration of Independence. The "force of law" that you speak of is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence.

Quote:
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.


"War" is the force of "law" in any international language.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 01:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You're still missing the point;
It is NOT that the point has been missed.
It is that the point that u have raised is IRRELEVANT to your false assertion
that language of the Declaration of Independence
was in the Constitution, and your efforts to conceal your ignorance, by distraction to irrelevant matters.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 03:38 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
If it's irrelevant, then you know nothing of US history.
 

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