It looks like Arafat was murdered by the Israelis after all. No surprise there.

I happen to like Izzy (waits for pellets of old zucchini).

But - George is not a Bob.

An alternate reason for the belief that Arafat was killed by the Israelis was on radio, that being to promulgate a canard that Arafat was killed by Israel, would give the Palestineans one more MARTYR! Without the thought of an Israeli plot, then Arafat was just a leader of the PLO, that spent time in Lebanon, was invited back, I thought by the Israelis, and then died from the effects of aging. Not a very useful scenario; however, as a martyr, a lot more mileage can be gotten from this historical figure. Whether this is true or not, is not the point. What is the point is that it is a very logical alternate scenario to the Israeli involvement explanation, and it was not offered, in the way of looking for all possible explanations?

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@Lustig Andrei,

Quote:

Sez who?

A terrorist organization has all kinds of access.

Typical brain dead American comment, Merry. You don't have the slightest ******* notion how many Iraqis and Afghans are dead because of brainless gorms like you.

And it is hardly limited to those two countries - millions, Merry, millions of people because of y'all's appalling stupidity.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Am I correct, you have nil Jewish friends?

No you're wrong, as usual.

Your tactics are hackneyed, any criticism of Israel must be portrayed as anti-Semitic, that way you avoid talking about the persecution of the Palestinians. Israel does it all the time. If you criticise Israel you're anti-Semitic, unless like Gerald Kaufman you're Jewish and then you're a self hating Jew.

This is a desperate, and rather pathetic attempt to avoid looking at what is going on right now in the occupied territories. It's another example of the ostrich mentality of a lot of Israel's apologists.

Am I correct, you have nil friends?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Dropping napalm on Vietnamese children did not help defeat the Nazis. In fact it made the West look evbery bit as oppressive as the commuinists.

If you're talking about WW2 you might want to look at Shamir's war record.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:
Am I correct, you have nil Jewish friends?

Your tactics are hackneyed, any criticism of Israel must be portrayed as anti-Semitic, that way you avoid talking about the persecution of the Palestinians. Israel does it all the time. If you criticise Israel you're anti-Semitic, unless like Gerald Kaufman you're Jewish and then you're a self hating Jew.

This is a desperate, and rather pathetic attempt to avoid looking at what is going on right now in the occupied territories. It's another example of the ostrich mentality of a lot of Israel's apologists.

Am I correct, you have nil friends?

I don't have friends, since I prefer acquaintances only. Friends are often friendly rivals, or at some point a friend might decide that the friendship is over, and the friend turns out to be a false friend. But, I am speaking as an asocial person, so I do not expect for anyone to see my perspective. Most people are extroverts, and value friendships. As an introvert, I value having no one intrude on my thoughts with their emotional needs for chit chat.

I have no tactics, since only "activists" have "tactics." I just have my native intelligence (good old Yankee intelligence).

I do not look "at what is going on right now in the occupied territories," because it is not my problem, not being an activist for that concern. I am not "avoiding" anything, since the concern is not part of my world, even though you make the Palestineans a "cause celebre," for yourself, in my opinion.

You also, in my opinion, have limited empathy, since you do not seem to understand that Israel for a (secular) Jew has a different meaning than for someone like yourself. Israel is for many a secular Jew a health insurance policy, just in case another Hitler comes to power. And, the world did not really show concern for the effects of the Nazi scourge on the lives of Jews. So, Jews often like thinking that Israel is a Jewish health insurance policy, in a manner of speaking. I do not expect you to empathize, since you have been quite a one-minded person, with no dog in the hunt, in my opinion.

You might want to ask a few British Jews why Israel seems so important to Jews around the world. You are just covering one aspect of your interest, or possibly, you prefer to see the world as black and white? I do not know.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Israel is for many a secular Jew a health insurance policy, just in case another Hitler comes to power. And, the world did not really show concern for the effects of the Nazi scourge on the lives of Jews. So, Jews often like thinking that Israel is a Jewish health insurance policy, in a manner of speaking.

I know quite well the fear that a lot of Jews have about another Hitler coming to power, and I would not want to be Jewish and living in either Greece or Hungary at the moment. I don't think that Jews living in America or Britain have anything to worry about though.

The Israeli state is well aware of this anxiety, and uses it to cower protests from the diaspora. At the same time the actions of the Israeli state haven't exactly helped counter anti-Semitism around the world.

Anyone who wants justice for the Palestinians should have no truck with anti-Semitism at all. The Palestinian Solidarity Campaign takes a very strong line against it, and has prominent Jewish members.

The closest we've got to Nazis over here is a rather repulsive group called the English Defence League (EDL). They promote a very strong anti-Moslem message, and there's always trouble at their marches.
Here's a picture of the sort of thug that goes to their rallys. As you can see, the real hate that needs to be tackled urgently, is the hate shown towards Moslems.

http://www.palestineposterproject.org/sites/aod/files/imagecache/poster_images_full/edl_wesupportisrael_pppa.jpg

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

In my opinion, your post was fairly logical. You make such a better impression when you don't get all emotional. However, you mentioned Greece and Hungary. There are Jews in South America, and if that neck-of-the-woods became anti-Jews, then it might be good if Israel had enough space to give them (the Jews) shelter. That might not be the case if they need to share their space with the losers of a war 64 years ago. It all comes down to practical decisions, in my opinion. No hate; no emotion; just practical decisions. Jews need Israel at its present size, due to the intractable anti-Semitism amongst some Gentiles. It is really a simple analysis. Don't blame me; blame the two-thousand year learning curve of the Catholic Church that Jews are perennial outsiders. Naturally, some Jews assimilate, and more and more people have a Jewish ancestor. Surprisingly, that is not a problem for the world. I suspect that the world wants my genome.

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@izzythepush,

Your jump to the conclusion that Israelis "murdered" Arafat when there is no proof that he was murdered is par for the course.

Everyone gets the benefit of the doubt, except Israelis in Izzy World.

Nevertheless, let's assume that the Israelis did assasinate Arafat: Good for them!

He was not only their sworn enemy, he ordered any number of terrorist attacks that murdered Israelis.

Arafat was responsible for the murder of very many people: Palestinians and Israelis. There is no injustice in his being deliberately killed.

Even if you want to cast him as a heroic leader of the Palestinian people; waging war against their Israeli oppressors in the only manner available to him, he was still the architect and leader of a war, and thus a legitimate target of the nation with which he warred.

You, reliably, dismiss Palestinian acts of terrorism against Israel as righteous actions of a people at war. It's quite hypocritical of you to condemn what you consider to be similar actions as terrorism, when they are conducted by the other party to the war.

But of course, you in your comfortable flat in the UK have determined that the Palestinians are to be forgiven, if not applauded, for all or their violence while the Israelis are to be condemned.

In your little circle of associates it is, no doubt, quite cool to be a supporter of all things Palestinian, including those things that are violent. This is the sort of behavior that was called Radical Chic back in the 60's in America, and involved liberal socialites competing to have the Revolutionary du jour at their latest dinner party.

Perhaps you've contributed some portion of your "hard earned" money to the Palestinian cause (although this by no means assured), but it would be incredible, based on your A2K posts, if you claimed that you have done anything more to advance that cause...and certainly not joining in the fight.

Alas, in these times, the braying of mules tends to have an incredible and clearly inordinate impact on the perceptions of average people, and so your posts, even within this extremely limited forum, may actually advance, in some small way, the Palestinian Cause to which you are so devoted.

I'm glad Arafat is dead. He was a malignant influence on Palestinians, and a murderer by his own hand and by his orders. If the Israelis engineered his death, it is fitting and justified.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Israelis in Izzy World.

Are there Finns in Finny World? Or (as I suspect) lots of sharks?

Curious minds want to know.

2 Replies

@contrex,

There's obviously no rule of law, but everything is terribly straight forward, it's all black and white.

In Finn world all of Israel's actions are acceptable. He must also applaud the shooting of Ahmed Bouchiki by Mossad in Norway.

He was Moroccan and a waiter, fair game.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

There's obviously no rule of law, but everything is terribly straight forward, it's all black and white.

In Finn world all of Israel's actions are acceptable. He must also applaud the shooting of Ahmed Bouchiki by Mossad in Norway.

He was Moroccan and a waiter, fair game.

I don't think he was the only one. There was that Austrian woman shot dead in Beirut when a Mossad hit squad raided an apartment adjacent to hers and she opened her door to see what was happening. Being Austrian she was probably a Nazi in Finn World. Also when they killed Ali Hassan Salameh with a car bomb in Beirut they managed to kill four innocent bystanders, including a British student and a German nun. But hey! it's Israel so it must be OK!

2 Replies

@contrex,

Btw I never said Arafat was definitely killed by Mossad, I said it looked like he was, but lets not bother with nuances.

International law is there for a reason, during the two Gulf wars the allies were very careful not to specifically target Saddam Hussein.

How do you think Finn would feel if during the troubles, the SAS decided to take out Noraid activists in Boston Mass?

4 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

How do you think Finn would feel if during the troubles, the SAS decided to take out Noraid activists in Boston Mass?

I wish they had done.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Wouldn`t what`s good for the goose also be good for the gander, Finn.

Nevertheless, let's assume that the Nicaraguans could have assassinated Reagan: Good for them!

He was not only their sworn enemy, he ordered any number of terrorist attacks that murdered 40 to 50 thousand Nicaraguans.

Reagan (and Bush) was responsible for the murder of very many people: Nicaraguans and Panamanians and Bosnians and Serbs and Croats. There would be no injustice in their being deliberately killed.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

The Palestinian Authority has said it will exhume the remains of its late leader, Yasser Arafat, to investigate new claims that he was murdered with the radioactive isotope polonium-210, the same substance used to assassinate the Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko.

The Palestinians and their evil supporters may all be disgusting monsters, but never let it be said that they aren't fun to laugh at.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

My response is very muted compared to the messages sent into Al Jazeera.

Most of them were convinced he was murdered, no doubt about it in there minds. The causes of his death were covered up from the word go, that's not in doubt.

Most of the people who posted the messages you refer to, are overdue for a drone strike.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

don't underestimate the journalistic qualifications of reports coming from aljazeera.net. of course, there are 2 or 3 different Al-Jazeera's, so you have to know which one you are following

I, personally, don't trust anything from aljazeera.com without verification elsewhere, but aljazeera.net is a very good source.

There is technically one al-Jazeera, and it is the ".net" that you mention as the good one (I think they might have other addresses for other languages though).

The other English language ones are fake.

The ".com" one that you mention as unreliable, is run by terrorists as a propaganda outlet. They use the name without permission.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Sturgis and Georgebob are on ignore for a reason.

Sigh. If only I could get on your ignore list.

I'd still denounce your anti-Semitism, of course. But it would be nice to be able to do so without you flipping out and spewing even more of your anti-Semitic bile.

izzythepush wrote:

I've just had another look online, and the scientists claiming the polonium must have been planted are Israeli.

The entire laws of physics must be an Israeli conspiracy, huh? Those Israelis just went and changed the universal half-life of polonium without telling anyone.

Laughing

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You're the bigot,

No, that would be you, with all your vile anti-Semitism.

izzythepush wrote:

the report is from the Guardian, although the story first broke on Al-Jazeera. Both the Guardian and Al jazeera have very high journalistic standards.

The fact that the Palestinians' freakery has gotten so extreme that news organizations have begun to report on it, does not mean that it is true.

izzythepush wrote:

All criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, it's impossible for anyone to sympathise with the Palestinians.

Well, yes. The fact that you anti-Semites try to disguise your anti-Semitism as "criticism of Israel" means that pretty much all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism.

And yes, it is pretty difficult to sympathize with the Palestinians. All the Palestinians ever do is try to derail peace and murder children. And there is a stunningly high correlation between "people who support the Palestinians" and "sick monsters who support sending innocent people to prison". When every one of a group's supporters is evil incarnate, that's a clear sign that the group itself is bad.

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It looks like Arafat was murdered by the Israelis after all. No surprise there.

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