It looks like Arafat was murdered by the Israelis after all. No surprise there.

@Ragman,

You're the bigot, the report is from the Guardian, although the story first broke on Al-Jazeera. Both the Guardian and Al jazeera have very high journalistic standards.

I know you want to paint some rosy picture about how all the Israelis are fine upstanding people threatened by a bunch of terrorists whose hatred of Israel is based on nothing but anti-Semitism. They weren't forced off their lands and out of their homes, they all left of their own accord.

All criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, it's impossible for anyone to sympathise with the Palestinians. foofie has already expressed incredulity that anyone could possibly feel sympathy for another group of people.

And considering your sickening adulation on another thread for Shamir, a man who fought against British forces in 1944 and was involved in the torture of British soldiers and fellow Jews, I'm not at all surprised that you can't comprehend anything other than bigotry.

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@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

The PLO didn't have access to polonium.

Sez who?

A terrorist organization has all kinds of access.

Well, you could accept that as a fact, or you can look at actual cases of polonium poisoning. Other than Litvinenko, most of them were Israeli scientists. Mordechai Vanunu is testament to what the Israeli government can do to scientists that step out of line.

Before labelling the PLO terrorist, you might even want to look at the fact that the Israeli government accepted that the PLO was no longer a criminal organisation on the 19th September 1993. (Arafat died in 2004.) Then again, a cavalier disregard of the facts has been characteristic of Israeli propaganda, and of those who are taken in by it.

Earlier on you made a valid point about high level PLO operatives having something to hide. That's more than likely, there was corruption in the PLO. Although they might have been led to believe something else was wrong, there's been rumours floating around about AIDS.

Look at who has gained the most of late. Arafat was a unifying figure like no other, and since his death the Palestinians have become divided, particularly Hamas and Fatah. Mahmoud Abbas is seen by a lot of Palestinians as little more than a quisling.

Both Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin were prime movers of the Oslo Peace Accord. Something that was bitterly opposed by the far right settler movement. In November 1995 Rabin was assassinated by a settler called Yigal Amir. Since then the movement has gone from strength to strength, the growth of illegal settlements on occupied land has increased, and the current administration is the most right wing Israel has ever had.

If the Israeli far right didn't have anything to do with Arafat's death, they certainly did very well out of it.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

So with your racist screed you choose to focus and/or discredit experts based solely on where they were born - rather than actual facts. Nice work as you never addressed the following FACTS - some of which are reported in the unimpeachable Al Jazeera:

"Responding to an Al Jazeera report published Wednesday, which said that specialists at the Institut de Radiophysique in Lausanne, Switzerland, discovered abnormally high levels of polonium on Arafat's belongings, Karmon said that the half life of the substance would make it impossible for polonium to have been discovered at such high levels if it had been used to kill Arafat eight years ago.

According to the Al-Jazeera report, polonium has a half-life of 138 days, "meaning that half of the substance decays roughly every four-and-a-half months."

And yet, eight years after Arafat's death, the Swiss scientists reported finding polonium levels of 54mBq and 180mBq on his belonging, considered to be high levels.

"If it had been used to for poisoning, minimal levels should be seen now. Yet much higher levels were found. Someone planted the polonium much later," Karmon said."

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@Ragman,

I think that when one looks at who is prenting the facts, one one side you have the Swiss, from a country known for its neutrality. On the other side there are Israeli scientists saying that the Israeli government can't possibly be involved.

It's not racist to listen to the group that hasn't got a vested interest. Then again in your blinkered world, any criticism of Israel is racist.

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@izzythepush,

Facts are something you don't want to address or seem to be uable to.

The fact remains that you never address the short half life of the polonium. You're only interested in throwing **** around at others with whom you're in conflict - a trait you share with primates such as the ape.

My work is done here. Obfuscation is your game.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

All criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, it's impossible for anyone to sympathise with the Palestinians. foofie has already expressed incredulity that anyone could possibly feel sympathy for another group of people.

And who do I commiserate with? Americans! Or, do you not consider me American, but just a Zionist?

Amazing to me, how you allow yourself to be a Brit, with all sorts of feelings for Britain; however, I am disenfranchised from my American nationality because I am a Jew? Do you know what a dumb **** is in English?

And, making reference to me, when I am not part of that post is just low class, in my opinion. Oh yes, what social class were you born into in the British model of social class (based on your father's class at your birth)?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

... Then again in your blinkered world, any criticism of Israel is racist.

Not racist, just willing to allow the Arabs to finish the job that Hitler started. That's not racist. That's just being efficient. In my opinion, the world is full of efficient people without the ability to see what they are efficient at. It can be called closed mindedness, possibly, unless they are just efficient and not too bright?

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The evidence here is slim in the extreme. Had anyone in the PLO suspected Israeli involvement, it seems likely there would have been an autopsy. Arafat was fairly obviously in failing health at the time. and had a very visible tremor for several years before he died. A factor of nine increase in the concentration of an extremely rare element on articles that have been lying about for a decade is hardly a proof off anything.

Arafat's effeciveness as a leader had been severely compromised by the time of his death, and if he was murdered, it seems just as likely the event could have been done by the PLO itself.

Only Izzie here is convinced. Strange bird, Izzie. he has a very thin skin when it comes to the misdeeds of his own country, but he is very willing to rush to judgment with respect to others.

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@Foofie,

You have expressed incredulity that anyone could feel sympathy for another group of people. You are an Israeli apologist. I've never denied you your Americanism or Jewishness, you do keep banging on about both all the time.

Why the obsession with class.

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@georgeob1,

You're a hypocrote Bob. You like to go on about Britains historic crimes, and seem to think that I should bear some personal responsibility. You are a war criminal who should be serving time in the Hague. Yet you don't think you should bear anyresponsibility for dropping napalm on Vietnamese civilians.

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@Ragman,

All the 'facts' you provide come from the well-oiled Israeli propaganda machine. So they're highly suspect.

Why is it that despite being on A2K for quite a while you only started talking to me about Israel when I put Sturgis on ignore?

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@izzythepush,

In the interests of fairness I've googled this topic a lot. The only references I can find that claims this story is false are either Israeli, or other sources referencing Israeli scientists.

The Israeli propaganda machine is not known for a commitment to the truth, so for now I prefer to listen to the neutral Swiss.

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

some of which are reported in the unimpeachable Al Jazeera:

don't underestimate the journalistic qualifications of reports coming from aljazeera.net. of course, there are 2 or 3 different Al-Jazeera's, so you have to know which one you are following

I, personally, don't trust anything from aljazeera.com without verification elsewhere, but aljazeera.net is a very good source.

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@ehBeth,

grrr rrrrr

you have to be careful about re-directions within the various sites

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Why is it that despite being on A2K for quite a while you only started talking to me about Israel when I put Sturgis on ignore?

Hey there doofus, if you are trying to make an allegation then spit it out.
Ragman and myself are different people, he just happened to enter into a topic which interested him. This is similar to where I enter a topic which interests me. Of course then I make a mistake and point out a factual error of yours or indicate that you had an avatar which to 99.99 percent of the people looked damn near similar to a pilgrim and you went berserk, including making not only ludicrous but disgusting allegations. In addition to that you then claim I am stalking you. No, izzy, I am entering topics which are of interest to me. I don't stalk people and if I ever decided to, I'd stalk a person before a thing such as you.

Do me a favor izzy, go pretend you are Guy Fawkes in his final moments.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You're a hypocrote Bob. You like to go on about Britains historic crimes, and seem to think that I should bear some personal responsibility. You are a war criminal who should be serving time in the Hague. Yet you don't think you should bear anyresponsibility for dropping napalm on Vietnamese civilians.

You don't know what I think about anything that I have (or in this case have not) done. Nor do you correctly understand my views about your country.

You do, however, have the remarkable combination of an extreme inability to deal maturely with criticism, direct or even implied, coupled with an exaggerated appetite for criticizing others. Not an admirable combination. Indeed it makes you look like a fool.

My name isn't Bob.

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Sturgis and Georgebob are on ignore for a reason. I read Georgebob's last post to respond to his initial contribution to a thread I originated, but I've said my piece to both of them and will not be engaging either of them in conversation.

I've just had another look online, and the scientists claiming the polonium must have been planted are Israeli. I've already laid out how the Israeli right has benefitted from the deaths of the two principal figures in the Oslo accord, so there's not a lot more to be said until the autopsy, (if there is one.)

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Sturgis and Georgebob are on ignore for a reason. I read Georgebob's last post to respond to his initial contribution to a thread I originated, but I've said my piece to both of them and will not be engaging either of them in conversation.

A rather tortured rationalization for (gasp!) actually reading the posts of those whom he had so loudly proclaimed to ignore ... and that followed by a girlish stomping of the foot and a renewal of the condemnation. A little transparent, that.

I suspect Sturgis and I will survive.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You have expressed incredulity that anyone could feel sympathy for another group of people. You are an Israeli apologist. I've never denied you your Americanism or Jewishness, you do keep banging on about both all the time.

Why the obsession with class.

When did I apologize for Israel? I do not care what they do. I was not an apologist when Israel torpedoed the USS Liberty, since it was Americans that were killed. Now, if Israel killed Brits, I would likely wonder if the Brits killed were just average blokes. But, not that much commiseration. I save that for Americans, and likely Australians, and Canadians, since they are not carrying the yoke of a pompous society, and in a pinch, they would be good surrogate Americans, in my opinion.

My "obsession with class" is because I believe that to take up the Palestinean cause, one may have had nil positive experiences with Jewish people. I find that in the States, those who are most alienated from Jewish people have had a paucity of positive experiences with Jewish people, as friends, teachers, etc., etc. Here that correlates with under-educated folk, that correlates to a lower socio-economic class,in my opinion. In effect, I am still trying to understand your gravitating to the Palestinean cause, since so many folks in the U.S., that are of a middle class background or better, have had enough positive experiences with Jewish people that they would not want to alienate any Jewish friends, etc., and therefore do not align their concerns with the Palestineans, even if they have no concerns for Israel. Get it?

Am I correct, you have nil Jewish friends?

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You're a hypocrote Bob. You like to go on about Britains historic crimes, and seem to think that I should bear some personal responsibility. You are a war criminal who should be serving time in the Hague. Yet you don't think you should bear anyresponsibility for dropping napalm on Vietnamese civilians.

I think you just showed your lack of ethical thinking, in my opinion, since it was men like George that assisted in saving your country from the Nazis.

So, while you might never show gratitude, since that might be outside the scope of your persona, to accuse him of being a war criminal is wrong. War criminals make the initial orders.

1 Reply

It looks like Arafat was murdered by the Israelis after all. No surprise there.

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