Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:04 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Something I always wondered...do you type your name at the end of every post or is that somehow automated?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:06 pm
Quote:

Nine takeaways on Romney’s tax plan

Posted by Ezra Klein on August 2, 2012 at 8:45 am

1) The Tax Policy Center bent over backwards to make Romney’s promises add up. They assumed a Romney administration wouldn’t cut a dollar of tax preferences for anyone making less than $200,000 until they had cut every dollar of tax preferences for everyone making over $200,000. They left all preferences for savings and investment untouched, as Romney has promised. They even tested the plan under a model developed, in part, by Greg Mankiw, one of Romney’s economic advisers, that promises “implausibly large growth effects” from tax cuts. The fact that they couldn’t make Romney’s numbers work even when they stacked all these scenarios on top of one another shows just how impossible Romney’s promises are.

2) The reason Romney’s plan doesn’t work is very simple. The size of the tax cut he’s proposing for the rich is larger than all of the tax expenditures that go to the rich put together. As such, it is mathematically impossible for him to keep his promise to make sure the top one percent keeps paying the same or more.

3) This is going to be a huge problem for the Romney campaign. The Romney team has tried to paper over the fact that its policy promises don’t add up by withholding the crucial details that independent analysts need to do the math. But now independent analysts are filling in those details for them (the Tax Policy Center’s look at Romney’s tax plan should be read in tandem with the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities effort to flesh out his spending promises). And, ultimately, that’s worse, as actors with more credibility than the Romney campaign are showing what the Romney campaign was trying to hide.

4) Evidence the Romney campaign does not have a good counterargument, part one: If they thought releasing more details would make the plan look better rather than worse, they would have released them rather than letting outside organizations fill in the blanks. It’s essentially the same theory as refusing to release the tax returns. But now the Romney campaign is receiving pressure — including from conservatives — to release those details, which they know they can’t do. And unlike on the tax returns, no one can say that the details of Romney’s plans for governing the country are irrelevant to this campaign.

5) Evidence the Romney campaign does not have a good counterargument, part two: They tried to brush the Tax Policy Center’s analysis off as “just another biased study from a former Obama staffer.” That former Obama staffer is Adam Looney, one of the study’s three co-authors, who was a staff economist on the Council of Economic Advisers from 2009 to 2010. But William Gale, one of Looney’s coauthors on this study, was a staff economist on George H.W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers. And the Tax Policy Center is directed by Donald Marron, who was actually a principal on George W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers. Calling the Tax Policy Center biased is ridiculous. Just ask…the Romney campaign, which referred to the TPC’s work as “objective, third-party analysis” during the primary. Oops.

6) If Romney tries to pay for tax reform by cutting spending, it becomes much more regressive. The Tax Policy Center says it is likely that “cutting spending would make the plan even more regressive because government spending tends to benefit low- and middle-income households more than tax preferences do.” In fact, it is almost a sure thing, as Romney has promised to increase defense spending and keep the promised benefit levels for this generation of seniors, which removes almost all the spending cuts that wouldn’t particularly harm the poor. Again, this CBPP study, which assumes Romney’s pays for half his tax plan with spending cuts, is illustrative.

7) “Broadening the base and lowering the rates” is anti-family tax reform. This is interesting: “Families with children currently receive 57 percent of the available tax expenditures examined in this exercise but 23 percent of the revenue reductions. Thus a reform that imposed an across-the-board reduction in tax expenditures would increase taxes much more on families with children than on childless adults.”

8. Passing any major tax reform plan is going to be much harder than people think. One reason tax reform in which you cut “tax expenditures” in order to lower rates sounds so good is that people don’t know what the words “tax expenditures” mean. Here’s what they mean: “employer provided health insurance and fringe benefits; the partial exclusion of social security benefits; above-the-line deductions like moving expenses; education-related benefits and tax credits; the deductions for medical expenses, state and local taxes, mortgage interest, and charitable contributions; child- and dependent-related tax credits like the child care credit, earned income tax credit, and child tax credit.” Be honest: How many of those do you really think we’ll cut, much less eliminate? If the answer is “not many,” we’re not doing much tax reform.

9) Dynamic scoring of the sort many Republicans think they want is impossible, and probably wouldn’t return the results they hope. The common Republican response to estimates like the Tax Policy Center’s is that they ignore the growth-accelerating effects of tax cuts. To estimate those effects “would require a full analysis of the entire federal budget, the budget deficit, and the anticipated response of monetary policy to changes in the budget. Furthermore, estimates indicate that the effects of tax rate reductions on the macroeconomy are likely to be small or even negative, at least, over the typical 10-year budget window.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/02/nine-takeaways-on-romneys-tax-plan/

This is just going to be a huge, huge problem for Romney. He has no way of explaining his plan in terms that people can understand, because there really are no details to it. And now independent groups are knocking it pretty hard, because it simply doesn't add up - something that I and other libs who actually READ the plan have been saying for months - and there's no way to make it work without raising taxes on the middle class.

Obama is going to fillet Romney on this one in the debates.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:08 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Something I always wondered...do you type your name at the end of every post or is that somehow automated?



I type it. Long habit

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Ah, thanks. Seems like a pain. You could just put Cyc...we'd still know who it was LOL.

I thought maybe you had an app for it Smile
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:12 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Ah, thanks. Seems like a pain. You could just put Cyc...we'd still know who it was LOL.

I thought maybe you had an app for it Smile


After a fashion, you're right - I use an APPendage to do it.

Any comment on Romney's tax plan and the failure to add up? I do value your thoughts on such matters.

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:16 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I haven't studied it much yet, but if and when I can figure it out I'll probably comment.

Right now I'm learning the ins and outs of A2K...between searching for cat videos LOL.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 12:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I think Romney's tax plan is a significant misstep. He didn't need to publish this to help him out with the Tea Party base - they are in the bag. It's red meat to the far right but all this does is convince the middle that Romney is out to lunch economically.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 02:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The Obama camp needs to communicate this kind of "crap" to the general public.

If conservatives want to cut their own throats because of such foolishness as "we want Obama to be a one term president," they need to understand the pain they're choosing for themselves, their families, and friends.

They can't see the forest for the trees. They're killing the cow, because they don't understand that milk is nutritious and required by most babies.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 02:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Latest from the Romney camp.

Quote:
Romney attacks Obama's economic 'report card'

In his first public event since his less-than-smooth overseas trip, Mitt Romney sought to return the focus back to President Barack Obama's record, arguing that Obama hasn't delivered on his promises to turn the country around.


Does Romney understand anything about what the republicans have been doing in Washington DC?

Does Romney understand anything about all those thousands of government jobs that the republicans did not fund and cut?

Does Romney understand simple math? Does Romney know anything about the Great Recession that impacted the world's unemployment rates?

Does Romney have a clue?

US President....................................................Avg Annual Increase
GW Bush 2005-2009.................................................- .84%
Barack Obama 2009-2012........................................+.84%

Obama took over the presidency from the Great Recession that GW Bush created.

Romney keeps harping on Obama's record, but he never seems to provide the necessary detail on how he would create jobs - except to extend the GW Bush tax cuts.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I suggested that you point me the direction of your post, not to engage in an attempt to justify your position, but you have demonstrated that any half-wit can find something on Google to support any position.

You offer up a Right-Wing blog, and one I've never heard of or read before.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of Right and Left blogs that publish all sorts of things.

If this is what you are trying to offer as evidence that the GOP and/or "The Media" was criticizing Michelle Obama for actions unrelated to her role as First Lady, you've failed miserably.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well there you go. Several unnamed people are far more authoritative than only one unnamed person.

Did Harry offer any other evidence to back up his calumny?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:12 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Well there you go. Several unnamed people are far more authoritative than only one unnamed person.

Did Harry offer any other evidence to back up his calumny?


Does he need any? Laughing

His purpose is already being accomplished without any additional evidence.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:19 pm
@Thomas,
And I thought you, at least, would acknowledge how low the Reid charge is.

As for how "the likes of Finn" reacted to the charges made by Romney's Primary opponents, how could you possibly know?

Do you really think "we" post our every thought in this forum?

By the way I consider your use of "the likes of Finn" and failure to respond to me directly to be insufferably smug and even cowardly.

I'm sorry to find you've joined so many others at such a low level.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:24 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Ah...I see.

You're A-OK with dirty tricks.

Duly noted, but please have the intellectual honesty to refrain from complaining about any you perceive to be launched from The Right.

Oops...I've done it again.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:27 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
BTW Cyclo, do you have a job or a life beyond this forum?

It really is amazing how you respond almost instantly to my every post.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Only half-wits posts half-wit posts from Google.

"Supports any position" also applies to you! DUH!

The issue is whether any post from the web can be supported by credible sources. What you claim as "half-wit" might be your half-wit brain making the interpretation.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:29 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
As for how "the likes of Finn" reacted to the charges made by Romney's Primary opponents, how could you possibly know?

By searching for reactions in the A2K posts of the time and not finding them.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
By the way I consider your use of "the likes of Finn" and failure to respond to me directly to be insufferably smug and even cowardly.

As we New Jerseyans like to say: Boo-*******-hoo.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So you agree that snood is a half-wit.

Ironically this is to snood's favor.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:29 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Ah...I see.

You're A-OK with dirty tricks.


Pretty much. See, we on the Dem side bemoaned them for a long time, and simply let you 'pubbies beat us up year after year, using the most outrageous of lies and innuendo. Your side has been engaged in a continuous and thinly-veiled 4-year long campaign against Obama, accusing him of being or associating with terrorists, being a muslim, and being a foreigner. At times it has veered into outright disrespect and racist behavior. You are completely unapologetic and unrepentant about this fact; in fact, you approve of it.

So, if that's the way you want to play things, fine. **** you guys right back. You don't like being punched in the mouth, maybe you'll change your own behavior in the future, and it won't happen as much. In the meantime, good luck defending your loser candidate. I sincerely hope he continues to be beaten about the head and neck by every single person possible.

Quote:
Duly noted, but please have the intellectual honesty to refrain from complaining about any you perceive to be launched from The Right.

Oops...I've done it again.


Wait a tick, you're complaining about the Dems, but your side engages in this behavior regularly, with no complaint from you. Does that make you intellectually dishonest? It would seem so, by your own criteria.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 04:34 pm
@Thomas,
In other words, you think "we" post our every thought in this forum.

As we New Yorkers like to say "******* stupid, but then you're from Joisey"
0 Replies
 
 

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