InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 01:10 pm
I don't think Romney would ingratiate himself so much with the far right if he were to become president. He seems to be more pragmatic than that. That's why he hasn't committed to any specifics in his campaign now that he's the Republican nominee for president. His "severely conservative" comment during the primaries seems patronizing towards the far right in retrospect. He's aiming for the moderate vote. He'd be something like Bill Clinton was in that he'd follow popular opinions on the different issues of the day. He won't be nearly as manipulatable by the far right as Dubya was. He'd be more along the lines of Daddy "wouldn’t be prudent" Bush.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 01:47 pm
@InfraBlue,
Sorry, InfraBlue, that's really not borne out by what he's been saying/ doing. He's going all-out to prove to conservatives that he's one of them, from going ahead and stepping out of the way as they demanded that he get rid of the openly gay foreign policy advisor he hired, (first he muzzled him, then he accepted his resignation), to the whole laundry list of stated stands and policies.

I'm sure he's hoping that moderates who aren't paying much attention will think he's still moderate so he'll get their vote anyway -- but when you pay attention, there isn't much moderation there.

And he's already proven that he's extremely manipulatable by the far right.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 03:11 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
like Guantanamo, and "spreading the wealth around."


I am disappointed about the Guantanamo thing. I think he ran into the wall of how difficult or practical it is. The other side is I think he has been much more effective in the war on terror. Whether or not that is justified is a difficult question. What's he's doing is better than invading countries, and much cheaper.

Quote:
President Obama's "bag of tricks," to fix the unemployment


I don't think any president can 'fix' the economy. The best thing they can do is try to maintain a consistent, moderate environment for growth. We forget what Obama inherited. The worst crash since 1939. The Republicans have been much worse for the economy if you look at history, despite the rhetoric.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 03:20 pm
@sozobe,
For all of his sidelining of Grenell in the face of pressure from the social conservatives, Romney didn't fire Grenell, he merely accepted his resignation, and this came approximately one month before Romney tied up the Republican nomination. I think that had Grenell stayed on until after that point, Romney would have had a freer hand to involve Grenell in a more open way in his campaign, and ignore the social conservative far right. Grenell had worked for John Bolton of all people, a far right hawk. As for the laundry list of stated stands and policies, that is all it is a laundry list of political talk and promises, much like what Obama has done, like what politicians invariably do.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 03:59 pm
@InfraBlue,
But Obama has been quite consistent throughout -- not 100%, no, but pretty much all the big stuff has been the same since he first became a major figure in 2004. What he hasn't accomplished has been largely because he was stymied, not because he changed his mind about it. And I agree with vast swaths of Obama's positions. (Not all.)

I really disagree with Mitt's list.

The line between Romney firing Grenell and accepting his resignation is a very fine one. After the right wingnut firestorm, Grenell was told to stay quiet on a conference call on foreign policy that he'd organized. He understandably didn't like that, and didn't like how his displeasure was then received. Mitt didn't go talk to him, didn't go say "sorry dude, just have to appease them for another month," nothing. Just stood by and accepted Grenell's resignation.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 04:12 pm
@rosborne979,
Well said

Irrespective of any other consideration, Obama's executive fiat on selective enforcement of immigration laws was a pretty clever political move.

You are absolutely right. Romney gains nothing by being suckered into condemning or condoning the policy aspects of the ploy.

What does he stand to lose? The respect of folks like snood?

I'm sure he lays awake at night wondering how he can pry snood's vote from Obama. No doubt he's receiving daily updates on this thread and gasped aloud when he heard that snood considers him "spineless," and conservatives haven't flocked to it to defend him.

Obama has the advantage of the presidency. Romney has the advantage of time.

Many, if not most, Americans aren't tuning in to the election until after the conventions.

Obama has to react and respond to every significant event. Romney doesn't.

The last few weeks have been terrible for Campaign Obama and the immigration fiat was an attempt to interrupt the flow of bad news, gaffes, and surrogate detections. It has less of a chance of working if Romney does't take the bait.

The MSM will soon get tired, if it isn't already,with reporting Romney has nothing to say in response to the Obama move.

Eventually Romney needs to present his position on immigration, but not on the Obama campaign time schedule.

Maybe all the stuff about tough primaries helping the nominee was true, because the Romney Campaign has gotten a whole lot smarter since the primaries.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 04:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

What does he stand to lose? The respect of folks like snood?


I'd say, what little shred of integrity the guy has left. And his credibility in the media.

Naturally, guys like Snood and I aren't going to vote for a douchebag like Romney. But constantly refusing to take a position doesn't help him with independents and also doesn't help him with his base - it just reinforces the idea that he'll say whatever he needs to, at whatever time, to get the maximum result.

How far we've come from the days when people on your side - including you! - used to talk about governing by principle, and not by polls. Delicious.

Cycloptichorn
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 05:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Well said

Irrespective of any other consideration, Obama's executive fiat on selective enforcement of immigration laws was a pretty clever political move.

You are absolutely right. Romney gains nothing by being suckered into condemning or condoning the policy aspects of the ploy.

What does he stand to lose? The respect of folks like snood?

I'm sure he lays awake at night wondering how he can pry snood's vote from Obama. No doubt he's receiving daily updates on this thread and gasped aloud when he heard that snood considers him "spineless," and conservatives haven't flocked to it to defend him.

Obama has the advantage of the presidency. Romney has the advantage of time.

Many, if not most, Americans aren't tuning in to the election until after the conventions.

Obama has to react and respond to every significant event. Romney doesn't.

The last few weeks have been terrible for Campaign Obama and the immigration fiat was an attempt to interrupt the flow of bad news, gaffes, and surrogate detections. It has less of a chance of working if Romney does't take the bait.

The MSM will soon get tired, if it isn't already,with reporting Romney has nothing to say in response to the Obama move.

Eventually Romney needs to present his position on immigration, but not on the Obama campaign time schedule.

Maybe all the stuff about tough primaries helping the nominee was true, because the Romney Campaign has gotten a whole lot smarter since the primaries.


Can you make an affirmative case for electing Romney that doesn't stand on the one "He's got to be better than Obama" worn-out leg?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 06:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I read an article that said Romney is playing Dewey to Obama's Truman.

Seemed pretty on target.

Romney isn't, at this point, defining himself as an alternative to Obama; he's simply trying to cast the election in terms of a referendum on Obama's presidency.

While that may play to the Republican base, who hate Obama (and all Democrats), but I don't think it's a viable long-term strategy.

Edit: Here's the article http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/18/mitt-romney-is-a-lot-like-thomas-e-dewey-the-equivocating-loser-to-truman.html
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  4  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 08:51 pm
It's a short list, but it's a list none the less.

1. He's not Obama. To small business owners, the Obama administration has been a catastrophe. OSHA has been set loose and been given the task of making a profit. That is disaster for any company given the "lucky" opportunity for a visit... Obamacare has also stifled small business growth. I personally know 2 companies that are maxed out at the level of employees where one more bumps them into bankruptcy if they hire one more person. They need to hire people, but won't due DIRECTLY to Obamacare. I hope Mitt strikes it down and makes it disappear.

2. He has top level experience as Gov of Mass. Not exactly a bastion of Republican thought. He demonstrated an ability to work with both parties to get his agenda passed.

3. He has a stated platform on immigration that I totally agree with. http://www.mittromney.com/issues/immigration

4. Mitt has stated that one of his first actions will be to Stop Obamacare and get healthcare back under the states control. Hell, that alone should be enough for people to vote for him. "On his first day in office, Mitt Romney will issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states. He will then work with Congress to repeal the full legislation as quickly as possible."

5. Mitt has many of things that I like about him that I think others would also like about him. He's a Republican, not a Tea-party candidate. He is a financially conservative candidate that is being very careful with his campaign. I just hope he doesn't get another Palin as VP and blow himself up.

There you go. 5 things, feel free to rip em apart and explain how none of that is tru and I must be blind yadda, yadda, yadda... I understand most of you have no intention of Voting Romney, but at least it's something to talk about. I've been holding my toungue on A2K since Obama was elected because despite everything, he is the President and the office deserves some modicum of respect.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 09:13 pm
@McGentrix,
Good list though #1 doesn't count lol

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 07:23 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
OSHA has been set loose and been given the task of making a profit.
Your evidence of this? Shouldn't we enforce existing laws or does that not apply to businesses?

Quote:
They need to hire people, but won't due DIRECTLY to Obamacare.

What specific provision of the affordable care act is preventing them from hiring?

I have to wonder about someone that is arguing that hiring an employee will drive them into bankruptcy. That is evidence of a poorly run company, not one of government interference.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 12:52 pm
@McGentrix,
Thanks for answering.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 12:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Good list though #1 doesn't count lol

Actually, I think for a lot of people it's the only one that counts.

"Not Obama. Not Clinton. Not Democrat. Democrats are the enemy, and everything they do must be opposed, even if it's something we once thought was a good idea."
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 02:47 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:


I'd say, what little shred of integrity the guy has left. And his credibility in the media.


Well, there's two more dynamics that must keep Mitt up at night:

1) Cyclo's opinion of his integrity
2) His "credibility" with a Media that has forfeited it's integrity for a seat on the Obama Express.

(Relative to #2, you may have seen the blatant hatchet job Andrea Mitchell over at NBC tried to deliver with clumsy editing of a Romney speech, or Lawrence O'Donnell's low life commentary on Ann Romney and her equine dressage pasttime. But knowing you, I've no doubt you think both reports were the epitome of integrity)

Quote:
Naturally, guys like Snood and I aren't going to vote for a douchebag like Romney.


I might have put it this way: "Naturally douchebags like you and snood aren't going to vote for a guy like Romney."

Quote:
But constantly refusing to take a position doesn't help him with independents and also doesn't help him with his base - it just reinforces the idea that he'll say whatever he needs to, at whatever time, to get the maximum result.


That might be the case if your allegation were so, but since he is not constantly refusing to take a position, I don't think he deeds to heed your well intentioned warning.


Quote:
How far we've come from the days when people on your side - including you! - used to talk about governing by principle, and not by polls. Delicious.


Whenever a partisan hack like you raises principle in an argument, I just have to laugh.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 02:52 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I might have put it this way: "Naturally douchebags like you and snood aren't going to vote for a guy like Romney."


Well, in that case, I think it's fair to say that you aren't qualified to tell who is and isn't a douchebag, Finn.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 03:04 pm
@snood,
Of course I can, but even if I couldn't, that would be enough for me to vote for him.

I'm sure you are simply asking for such a case to better understand how people who generally don't agree with you tend to think. I'm certain you have no plan to descend upon any such case with long knives drawn.

In that light I will offer you a case:

1) He is a firm advocate of Capitalism, the power of the Free Market and classical economics
2) That he may not be an utterly reliable social conservative, is not much of a concern to me.
3) He has meaningful real life experience. He hasn't flitted from one position to another in advancement of his political career
4) He is a decent human being, a good husband and father (So is Obama, by the way, but one bullet point alone will never get me to vote for him)
5) He is not Obama

There really isn't much of a need to get into details with this election. This isn't a Primary. The two choices are starkly different.

Just as you were never going to vote for McCain unless the Democrats nominated a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, I would never vote for Obama unless the Republicans nominated a Neo-Nazi.

Perhaps Independents would like, and need more detailed advocacy, but you are not, by any stretch of the imagination, an Independent.


0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 03:05 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
But you are?

Ha!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 03:07 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

But you are?


Apparently so.

Quote:
Ha!


Gesundheit.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 03:09 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

There you go. 5 things, feel free to rip em apart and explain how none of that is tru and I must be blind yadda, yadda, yadda... I understand most of you have no intention of Voting Romney, but at least it's something to talk about. I've been holding my toungue on A2K since Obama was elected because despite everything, he is the President and the office deserves some modicum of respect.


To paraphrase the Great White Hunter in Jurassic Park:

"Clever boy."

Except that you have forced the Raptor's hand.

They're thanking you and thumbing up your post because anything else would be a naked admission of the original intent of this thread.

Lord how they would have loved to rend you with their dew claws.
 

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