InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 03:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Wouldn't you also agree that those Jews who still support Romney are also "misinformed and bigoted?"


Bigotry and ignorance do not discriminate. They are equal opportunity scourges.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 05:13 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

I think he's saying you shouldn't tell your black, gay, and wheelchair-bound friends that they should be offended.

Be offended on your own behalf.


Exactly. OR, if they ARE offended you can't tell them they shoudn't be.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 05:26 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Exactly. OR, if they ARE offended you can't tell them they shoudn't be.


of course I can, in the same way you can apparently tell people what they can't do

freaky


(not that I do, or intend to, but man, that's some special way of getting people's backs up_)
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 06:04 pm
@ehBeth,
I think many people missed the irony of Romney's spokesperson in Poland, when he said,
Quote:
"Kiss my ass," he replied. "This is a holy site for the Polish people. Show some respect."


Any comments?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 06:22 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

snood wrote:

Exactly. OR, if they ARE offended you can't tell them they shoudn't be.


of course I can, in the same way you can apparently tell people what they can't do

freaky


(not that I do, or intend to, but man, that's some special way of getting people's backs up_)


Hey ehbeth - I'm actually trying to find the least resistance here, and you seem to be spoiling for some shyt. I'm simply saying no one knows better than the individual who is offended. What's wrong with that?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 06:36 pm
AN-yway...

This overseas Romney "Charm Offensive" has buoyed my spirits considerably about the possible outcome of the November election. It really looks like he's his own worst advertisement.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 06:58 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
snood wrote:

Exactly. OR, if they ARE offended you can't tell them they shoudn't be.


of course I can, in the same way you can apparently tell people what they can't do.

I agree with Beth.

From my perspective, racist speech is morally equivalent to slander. One possible defense against charges of slander is factual truth. So if you are offended because I made what you think is a racist remark, it's perfectly okay for me to answer: "What I said is true. You have no reason to be offended." Of course, I must then present evidence that what I said actually is true. But as long as I do that, I have a perfectly valid defense for myself, and a perfectly valid reason to tell you that you shouldn't be offended.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:12 pm
I'm having a little trouble remembering, but I think I remember the first time this thing about the offended party speaking for themselves came up here.

I think it was when we were talking about native Americans taking offense about team and mascot names. As I remember it, several people thought they should just get over it - a couple even said they should be flattered. I thought no one could tell them whether or not they should be offended at those things.

Since this is derailing the thread, I will re-post this as the start of another thread, and try to keep this one on the very discussion-worthy subject of "Romney 2012?"
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:24 pm
@snood,
Don't get too comfortable with Romney's gaffs. Most conservatives overlook them as things Americans don't hold that important, and will be short-lived.

We all know about the short memories of conservatives....
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
And, as Grover said.... they only want someone who's willing to hold the pen that signs the conservative bills that they put before him.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:49 pm
@JPB,
The biggest problem today with the conservative party is that they want everybody to follow in lock-step with the leadership. If you don't follow, you don't get the prize assignments and committees.

I understand one brave GOP member of congress recognized this puppet regime, and resigned.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 07:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Don't get too comfortable with Romney's gaffs. Most conservatives overlook them as things Americans don't hold that important, and will be short-lived.

We all know about the short memories of conservatives....

Yeah - I'm not too concerned with them. Just the small percentage of "independents" who can be swayed.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Don't get too comfortable with Romney's gaffs. Most conservatives overlook them as things Americans don't hold that important, and will be short-lived.

On the other hand, Republican conservatives are already frustrated because they never liked Romney. (Hence their zeal to support anyone-but-Romney candidates of the week for the past two years.) Continuing gaffes could feed into their already-existing perception that Romney is an embarrassment, which in turn could hurt the mobilization of their base. And then, as Snood says, there are the remaining swing voters. . . .
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:26 pm
@Thomas,
snood brings up another good point, and that is how the moderates and independents will move away from Romney because of all those gaffs.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 10:18 am
Quote:

TPM2012
Study: Romney Plan Would Raise Taxes On 95% Of Americans

Benjy Sarlin August 1, 2012, 11:12 AM 3898

Mitt Romney’s tax plan would be a boon for the wealthy, but a tax hike for 95% of Americans, according to a new nonpartisan study.


The report, by researchers from both the Brookings Institution and Tax Policy Center, examined Romney’s suggestion of an across-the-board 20% income tax cut financed by closing existing loopholes and concluded there was no way to make the numbers work without burdening the vast majority of Americans with higher taxes.

Romney has not said which tax breaks he would end to finance his plan, but he has suggested that he would only look to breaks that benefit the wealthy. The report concluded that notion is a fantasy no matter how it’s constructed: There simply are too many middle class tax breaks on the table to avoid skewing the burden against the average American.

“Even if tax expenditures are eliminated in a way designed to make the resulting tax system as progressive as possible, there would still be a shift in the tax burden of roughly $86 billion from those making over $200,000 to those making less than that amount,” the report reads.

That $86 billion should lend quite the boost to the luxury goods market: “Americans making over $1 million would see an increase in after-tax income of 4.1 percent (an $87,000 tax cut), those making between $500,000 and $1 million would see an increase of 3.2 percent (a $17,000 tax cut), and those making between $200,000 and $500,000 would see an increase of 0.8 percent (a $1,800 tax cut).”

As for the other 95% of Americans? Not so much. The average tax increase needed to pay for the elite’s gains would be $500 per household.

President Obama, who is speaking in Ohio on Wednesday, is planning to seize on the study.

“He’s not asking you to contribute more to pay down the deficit, or to invest in our kids’ education,” Obama is expected to say, according to prepared remarks released by the campaign. “He’s asking you to pay more so that people like him can get a tax cut.”


http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/study-romney-plan-would-raise-taxes-on-95-of-americans.php

This will be something of a problem for Romney and the GOP to explain.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 10:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
This will be something of a problem for Romney and the GOP to explain.

Wait... they're going to start explaining things, now?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 10:23 am
Intrade shows VA flipped to 52.5% Dem vs last week's 50.6% Rep.

http://electoralmap.net/2012/intrade.php
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 10:26 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
Romney is an embarrassment, which in turn could hurt the mobilization of their base.


my impression, from Facebook, is that Mr. Obama being the alternative is more than enough to keep the conservative/Republican base mobilized. They still hate Mr. Obama.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 10:29 am
@ehBeth,
True; that's what's keeping the conservatives mobilized; to make Obama a one term president. Nothing else matters to them.

They prefer a liar and panderer; not because of his "business background" which nobody really understands or knows about. Nobody knows how many jobs he has created or destroyed at Bains Capital.

It's a sideshow.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 10:30 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Romney is an embarrassment, which in turn could hurt the mobilization of their base.


my impression, from Facebook, is that Mr. Obama being the alternative is more than enough to keep the conservative/Republican base mobilized. They still hate Mr. Obama.


Hate isn't enough. They don't hate Obama more than the Libs hated Bush in 2004, I guarantee you. And that didn't turn out so well for them.

It's not enough to hate the other guy - you have to be willing to work for your guy. To knock on doors and make phone calls on weekends. I don't see a lot of that for Romney. Just a lot of online Slacktivism - as if complaining was enough.

Cycloptichorn
 

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