georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 07:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Nonsense. The article you posted says (in many more words) exactly what I wrote. The WTO is a voluntary organization that adjudicates disputes for member states. I has no police powers. It is not the economic policeman for the world. You were dead wrong when you wrote that.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 10:09 pm
Some creative sloganeering on the Romney campaign trail...

http://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/offensive-anti-obama-tshirt.png?w=840
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 10:10 pm
Quote:
But there’s an underlying reason for Romney’s shape-shifting. It’s the same reason Rep. Paul Ryan always resorts to impressive-sounding budget speak and mathematical gobbledygook to evade explaining the impact of his budgets on actual human beings.

Romney, Ryan and the entire right know that their most deeply held belief — the one on which they won’t compromise — is rejected by the vast majority of Americans. That’s their faith that every problem in the economy and in society can be solved by throwing more money at rich people through tax cuts.

Vice President Biden kept Ryan on the defensive during most of Thursday night’s debate precisely because he refused to let anything distract him from driving this central point home. Without pause and without mercy, Biden kept bringing viewers back to the obsession of the current Republican Party with “taking care of only the very wealthy.”

Obama doesn’t have to look angry or agitated in this week’s debate. He simply needs to invite voters to see that Romney, the product, will give them no clue as to what Romney, the person, might do as president. Romney keeps changing the packaging because he knows that the policies inside the box are not what voters are looking for.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-jr-unlikable-policies-force-romney-to-keep-flip-flopping/2012/10/14/179cfcfe-1633-11e2-9855-71f2b202721b_story.html?hpid=z3

gee, it seems like someone on A2K has been pointing out for over a year that Romney is a shapeshifter....I cant for the life of me remember who this is though. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 11:04 pm
@Ceili,
You wrote,
Quote:
As for higher prices... ask your self if anything in the last 20 or so years has gone down in price.


Why would I have to ask such a stupid q? Because you say so? LOL

I drive about 5,000 miles a year in my car, and I don't worry about the gas price.

You'll have to ask Cornell U about any question you have about their article. CLUE: I'm not the author nor am I informed that much about this issue. I need to respond with other sources I feel has better knowledge about the topic.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 11:08 pm
@georgeob1,
Who needs "police powers" if they are willing to abide by their judgement on cases?

Quote:
When WTO rules impose disciplines on countries’ policies, that is the outcome of negotiations among WTO members. The rules are enforced by the members themselves under agreed procedures that they negotiated, including the possibility of trade sanctions. But those sanctions are imposed by member countries, and authorized by the membership as a whole. This is quite different from other agencies whose bureaucracies can, for example, influence a country’s policy by threatening to withhold credit.


It's a cooperative union, not a police state.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 11:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

one study from Cornell University said the pipeline could actually lead to a decline in jobs in the long run.[/b] One reason is that the pipeline would lead to higher fuel prices in the Midwest, and that would slow consumer spending and cost jobs. he study also said jobs could also be lost due to crop failures or other events associated with higher pollution levels the oil sands would bring. And it said more oil would mean a decline in green jobs.


Clue... I realize you didn't write it, you can't even defend using it.
If you're going to use stupid quotes, I'm going to ask you stupid questions. If you don't want to answer stupid questions, then do your homework. Who the hell doesn't know prices are going to rise...
I showed you that higher pollution wasn't correct, especially since the oil sands are pretty freakin' far away from the mid west..

Anymore stupid quotes you'd like to show us? or is that another stupid question you'll refuse to answer.
So, you drive 5000 miles a year, take countless airplane trips, have money to burn and then you have the gall to bitch about the oil sands and pollution?
Hypocritical much? Amazing. Are your means of transport powered by pixie dust? Or could they be powered by products from the oil sands. hmmmm, I wonder?
Hate to break it to you but more oil doesn't necessarily lead to a decline in green jobs. And a one sentence bit of bullshit is not a good explanation, regardless of whether it comes from an ivy league school or not. If you don't want to back up your source, choose better ones.
In other words, think before you spout or at least make sure you really do find better sources. And please make them timely too.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 12:13 am
@Ceili,
Why do I get the feeling you have an economic stake in Canadian oil sands?
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 07:55 am
@RABEL222,
All Canadians do.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 10:22 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:
If this is a different world, why is our consumption of oil products increasing?


the different world I'm referring has to do with where the resource development is happening - which economies are in hyper-growth etc.

the old traditional players have been left behind already. we're just slow at catching on.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 10:23 am
@georgeob1,
It's the "they" in your post that I disagree with.

The U.S., Canada, Australia et al are barely in play now.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 10:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
How can the US be the economic policeman of the world?


great question
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 10:25 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

All Canadians do.


we're making a mistake if we put too much weight on their value to the economy
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 10:26 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
How can the US be the economic policeman of the world?


great question


and why should they be
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 10:55 am
The wealthiest men in america funneling millions and millions of corporate money to elect Romney by any means possible and threatens to fire people if Obama is elected? Really?

Just another example of greed of these wealthy scum bags, still taking it all out on the people less fortunate, just disgusting behaviors and another reason we need these rich jerks out of buying politics.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/10/15/1010581/koch-employee-votes/

Quote:
The Koch brothers’ $60 million pledge to defeat President Obama — along with their political network’s $400 million spending — make them two of the most influential conservatives this election.

Not content with their unprecedented influence in politics, the Kochs have also taken to influencing the votes of their employees. According to In These Times, Koch Industries sent 45,000 mailers to employees at Koch subsidiary Georgia Pacific, urging votes for Romney and other conservative candidates. The letter warns ominously of “consequences” for the workers if Republicans lose.

The Koch mailer is one of several recent examples of executives warning that employees may lose their jobs if Republicans do not win in November. Here is an excerpt of the letter:
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 11:00 am
@Ceili,
No, you didn't answer any question. It takes lots of water to clean sand oil, and you've proved nothing; just your opinion not backed up by any credible source.

Your defense is no defense at all; your opinions without credible sources are no better than what you claim about Cornell U. Chellenge what they say with other sources that we can rely on - not your personal opinion. That you drank some purified water is laughable.

Most experts are saying the oil pumped down to Texas isn't going to be sold in the US market. Why should the US expose our lands to more pollution for oil that's only going to be processed? Sure, that's capitalism, but what assurances do we have about the safety of our environment? Because you say so? Show us some guarantees - not your personal opinion. Mr. Green

As far as I'm concerned, you're full of hot air.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 11:11 am
@snood,
Yes, that was in Ohio -- saw the picture on Facebook. (Nobody I know.) UGH.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 12:02 pm
@sozobe,
Here's a roundup for the next debate's talking points.

On Libya: Benghazi security: Is the responsibility of the State Department, not the president. The charges made by Romney on the failure of President Obama on Benghazi is laughable. Does he know how many US Embassies we have around the world? The question: how many security personnel is enough to protect all of our embassies? The country doesn't want more security forces in their country; it doesn't matter if they requested more security forces. It wasn't Obama that refused to increase more security; it was the State Department. No president can micro-manage every department; that's a FACT. A good manager knows how to delegate responsibility. Remember that!

On Iran: They're not close to developing a delivery system for any nuclear weapon. The embargo has been effective; their price for everything is costing more, because they can't import goods into their country. That's a high price to pay for developing nuclear bombs. They're essentially destroying their own country. Their missiles can't travel over 2,000 miles. Those countries in Europe and Russia should be more concerned than the Americas.

On voting fraud: there's no proof of voter fraud to require government issued ID cards.
From the Brennan Center for Justice: Two New Reports:
An analysis of more than 250 claims of fraud in the Supreme Court's photo ID case       
Finding not one proven case of a fraudulent vote that the challenged law could prevent
Exposing false assertions that photo ID is required for common activities
The Truth About Voter Fraud, examining inflated claims of voter fraud nationwide
Debunking claims of double voting, dead voters, and more
See more about the link between voter fraud and restrictive ID rules here and here.

On Planned Parenthood and Abortion: Planned Parenthood is not a government institution, and Romney cannot eliminate it. Most abortions are done in private clinics and are not covered by government funding, there are a few government grants and contracts provided to abortion clinics. By de-funding abortion, many young women who do not have the resource will attempt self-abortion. Romney should think twice before he shoots from the hips – if he cares for young women.

On the US economy: By cnn.money:
It's official: Recession since Dec. '07
The National Bureau of Economic Research declares what most Americans already knew: the downturn has been going on for some time.

By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: December 1, 2008: 5:40 PM ET
The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy .
The NBER is a private group of leading economists charged with dating the start and end of economic downturns. It typically takes a long time after the start of a recession to declare its start because of the need to look at final readings of various economic measures.
The NBER said that the deterioration in the labor market throughout 2008 was one key reason why it decided to state that the recession began last year.
Employers have trimmed payrolls by 1.2 million jobs in the first 10 months of this year. On Friday, economists are predicting the government will report a loss of another 325,000 jobs for November.
CNNMoney.com: January 2009:
Job loss: Worst in 34 years
Employers slashed 598,000 more jobs in January as unemployment rate climbed to 7.6%.

By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: February 6, 2009: 10:46 AM ET

From San Antonio Business Journal.
Job gains now exceed job losses since 2009
San Antonio Business Journal by Mike W. Thomas, Reporter
Date: Friday, September 28, 2012, 6:34am CDT

Yes, our economy is on the mends, but it's a slow recovery, because there's a World Recession going on. The US economy continues to grow at 1% to 2% a year, and our unemployment rate is still high by past recessions, but this World Recession will last longer than past recessions. The unemployment rate in Europe is growing, and more Euro countries are having financial problems.
1. Consumer confidence is relatively high
2. Housing is beginning to show some improvement, with bankruptcies dropping, and new housing developments growing. More people are staying in their homes.
3. Car sales are up 13% from last year.
4. From Off The Grid News: Consumers Lower Debt Levels Despite Government Stimulus
Oct 9th, 2012 | By Jen A | Category: Financial, Personal finances, Top Headline | Print This Article
The government wants Americans to spend, spend, spend – but the average consumer is over it. Instead of doing what the government wants, millions of consumers are doing what’s best for their own lives: they’re taking a hard look at their finances and trying to dump their debt load.
For some, it’s a matter of cutting back until they can catch up on payments. For others, it’s been a matter of mailing back the keys and declaring bankruptcy. Either way, for the first time in years, American debt levels are falling. It’s making individual households happy, but the government is none too thrilled about it.5
5. The Stock Market since 2000:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2m4wys6.png
By all the key indicators for our economy, we're doing just fine, and people need to thank President Obama for doing the best he can for the Middle Class.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 12:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Further tightening of the noose on Iran,
Quote:
European Union Intensifies Sanctions on Iran
By JAMES KANTER and THOMAS ERDBRINK
Published: October 15, 2012

BRUSSELS — The European Union toughened sanctions against Iran on Monday because of the disputed Iranian nuclear program, banning trade in sectors like finance, metals and natural gas, and making business transactions in many other areas far more cumbersome.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No, you didn't answer any question. It takes lots of water to clean sand oil, and you've proved nothing; just your opinion not backed up by any credible source.

Your defense is no defense at all; your opinions without credible sources are no better than what you claim about Cornell U. Chellenge what they say with other sources that we can rely on - not your personal opinion. That you drank some purified water is laughable.

Most experts are saying the oil pumped down to Texas isn't going to be sold in the US market. Why should the US expose our lands to more pollution for oil that's only going to be processed? Sure, that's capitalism, but what assurances do we have about the safety of our environment? Because you say so? Show us some guarantees - not your personal opinion. Mr. Green

As far as I'm concerned, you're full of hot air.

You are wrong on several points here. Ceili's point was that relatively recent innovations in recycling the water used in harvesting bitumin from the Alberta tar sands have greatly diminished both the water consumption and the waste volume. That is entirely true. It is also true that the practice is being rapidly applied and expanded by SunCorp and other producers there, and that the Canadian government is behind it. Your mere affirtmation that "it takes a lot of water ..." was merely an evasion of the entirely valid point she made.

The following statement;
Quote:
Most experts are saying the oil pumped down to Texas isn't going to be sold in the US market. Why should the US expose our lands to more pollution for oil that's only going to be processed?
Is wrong on several points. The truth is that the majority of the refining capacity in Texas and Louisiana is designed to process heavy crude such as tar sands oil and that produced by Venezuela. The Keystone pipeline will enable us to access Canadian crude oil at a lower cost than that exoprted by our good friends in Venezuela.

While there may be some output from these refineries that is exported to other countries, the simple fact is that the United States has relatively little excess refining capacity, mostly because environmentalists resist their construction and operation. Petroleum products are easily transporatble and are used everywhere in the world. It is hardly uncommon for such products to be imported to one area of the country while, at the same time being exported from another. The United States is a very large net importer of petroleum and I think you know that.

You tend to immunize yourself from valid arguments presented by others here by evading the question, changing your focus , or simply repeating already discredited points. That of course is your right. However, folks would likel;y take you more seriously if you behaved more reasonably in this area.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:29 pm
@georgeob1,
You wrote,
Quote:
Is wrong on several points. The truth is that the majority of the refining capacity in Texas and Louisiana is designed to process heavy crude such as tar sands oil and that produced by Venezuela. The Keystone pipeline will enable us to access Canadian crude oil at a lower cost than that exoprted by our good friends in Venezuela.


I'm not sure how you arrived at such a conclusion when in any competitive marketplace, prices should be reduced - by all parties. What makes you think Canadian crude will have a price advantage?
 

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