roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:32 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

The United States is a very large net importer of petroleum and I think you know that.


If he knows that, he might even know that petroleum is about a perfect example of a fungible commodity. I have my doubts.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From thehill.com.
[quote]Canadian oil company ordered by EPA to intensify river cleanup
By Zack Colman - 10/03/12 03:59 PM ET

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) told an oil company it must redouble cleanup efforts for a two-year-old spill that environmentalists have used to criticize the proposed Keystone XL pipeline.

Canadian oil firm Enbridge was told Wednesday that it needs to do more work in western Michigan’s Kalamazoo River, where in July 2010 one of its pipes carrying oil sands ruptured and released 20,000 barrels of oil. [/quote]
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I didn't say what you described. I said that the cost of delivering Canadian crude by pipeline to our Gulf Coast refineries would be less than that delivered by tanker from Venezuela. There is indeed a world market for crude, although it is more complex involving variations by region and type of petroleume than you imply. Increased production and competition in any area tends ultimately to bring down the price.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:37 pm
@georgeob1,
See my post above; that's beyond the so-called, assumed, cheaper Canadian oil.
Price cheaper? Environmentally cheaper?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Here's another study from Cornell University.
Quote:
Cornell Global Labor Institute 16 East 34th Street, 4th Floor, 212-340-2840
AboutProjectsResearchEventsEducation and TrainingPartnersContact
Cornell GLI Releases Report on Employment and Economic Impacts of Tar Sands Spills

Cornell GLI’s new briefing paper, The Impact of Tar Sands Pipeline Spills on Employment and the Economy, examines the potentially negative impacts of tar sands oil spills on employment and the economy along the proposed route for the Keystone XL, focusing mainly on the agriculture and tourism sectors. The report also highlights Michigan’s Kalamazoo River spill in 2010- the largest tar sands oil spill in the U.S.

Main Findings include:

The negative impacts on employment and the economy of tar sands pipelines like the Keystone XL have largely been ignored. To date, a comprehensive risk assessment for the proposed Keystone XL pipeline oil spill has not been conducted.
The Keystone XL pipeline would cut through America’s breadbasket. Farming, ranching, and tourism are major sources of employment along the Keystone XL pipeline’s proposed route.
Many of the land areas and bodies of water that Keystone XL will cross provide recreational opportunities vital to the tourism industry.
Recent experience has demonstrated that tar sands spills pose additional dangers to the public and present special challenges in terms of clean up. The Kalamazoo River tar sands spill affected the health of hundreds of residents, displaced residents, hurt businesses, and caused a loss of jobs.
Renewable energy provides a safer route to creating new jobs and a sustainable environment.
For media inquiries, contact Lara Skinner at [email protected] or 212-340-2884.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Enbridge is in trouble in many locations.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 01:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

See my post above; that's beyond the so-called, assumed, cheaper Canadian oil.
Price cheaper? Environmentally cheaper?


You evidently don't have the integrity to stick to the points you have made. When you are in a corner of your own making you change the topic, introduce new arguments and throw dust in the air. Not very adult.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 02:08 pm
@georgeob1,
That's how you "see it," but FYI, they "all" apply to this topic.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 03:21 pm
@ehBeth,
Thanks. Here's a report on Embridge problems.
http://www.wdio.com/article/stories/S2715279.shtml?cat=10335
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  5  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 05:10 pm
I'm not going to ascribe too much meaning to this, nor too much outrage -- I just thought it was mildly amusing. Smile

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/files/2012/10/APTOPIX_Romney_2012-0cf5e_image_606w-300x200.jpg

Quote:
The head of a northeast Ohio charity says that the Romney campaign last week “ramrodded their way” into the group’s Youngstown soup kitchen so that GOP vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan could get his picture taken washing dishes in the dining hall.

Brian J. Antal, president of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, said that he was not contacted by the Romney campaign ahead of the Saturday morning visit by Ryan, who stopped by the soup kitchen after a town hall at Youngstown State University.

“We’re a faith-based organization; we are apolitical because the majority of our funding is from private donations,” Antal said in a phone interview Monday afternoon. “It’s strictly in our bylaws not to do it. They showed up there, and they did not have permission. They got one of the volunteers to open up the doors.”

He added: “The photo-op they did wasn’t even accurate. He did nothing. He just came in here to get his picture taken at the dining hall.”

Ryan had stopped by the soup kitchen for about 15 minutes on his way to the airport after his Saturday morning town hall in Youngstown. By the time he arrived, the food had already been served, the patrons had left, and the hall had been cleaned.


(That's an excerpt, the rest here):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/15/charity-president-unhappy-about-paul-ryan-soup-kitchen-photo-op/

Washing clean dishes. What a helpful guy.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 05:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Nice quote. In what way does it address the proposed pipeline's negative impact on employment?
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 05:36 pm
@sozobe,
I read that today! He stopped by a soup kitchen for a photo op. It wasn't open, there were no homeless people there, he had his pic taken washing already-washed pans and on top of it all, the soup kitchen was given no warning and were never asked permission to do so by the campaign.

This privileged attitude where these guys think they can do whatever they please and pose inaccurate lying photos is what they will bring to the White House if elected.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 05:45 pm
@sozobe,
That's their "speed;" lie to the 100% of the American people through pictures.

Pretty sad, isn't it.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 05:56 pm
@jcboy,
That is disappointing.

0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 06:10 pm
@jcboy,
It looks like they stopped by and did ask, but the person they asked didn't actually have the authority to say "yes."

But you're right that they weren't asked to stop by (quite the opposite, the guy who DID have authority is the one who's mad that it happened -- I understand about how he has to make sure the org stays apolitical since it's a non-profit). And the washing-clean-dishes thing...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 06:20 pm
@sozobe,
Maybe, Romney will fund that nonprofit when he becomes president. Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk Drunk
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 06:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is encouraging on the electoral votes, because even when Obama's votes went down, it didn't affect Romney's numbers. Romney's in big trouble - especially after tomorrow's debate.

http://i46.tinypic.com/ac61y9.png
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 06:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
How can you in good conscious even talk about environmental problems? You are part of the problem!!!
You bragged about your gasoline usage like it was a gnat. Hypocritical...
Enbridge didn't build those pipelines, instead bought old lines from american companies. By rights, every inch of those pipes should have been inspected, before the sale, never mind after the purchase.
It's old pipes, old technology that has failed. New pipelines are far better than the old stuff and way more regulated. It's the old pipes you should be scared of.
New lines should be build very far from water or at the very least try and limit contact as much as possible.
Tankers filled with oil can't even compare to a pipeline that will carry millions of litres a day, a pipeline filled not only with canadian bitumen, but american too. All of this oil will be refined by american companies, employing american workers. If these refineries choose to sell the excess to the world market, why would you have a problem with it? It's jobs and trade.

Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 06:33 pm
@ehBeth,
Good point, but at this juncture in time, it is what has saved the canadian economy, that and Paul Martins brilliant non-deregulation of the banks. When another player in our economy can prove itself as the savior, I'll be behind it as well.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2012 06:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What question?? You didn't ask a question.
I asked you several questions, all of which you've conveniently ignored. Yes, it takes a lot of water to clean oil sand, but if you reuse the water, over and over and leave it cleaner than you found it, what exactly is your point?
My defense is... I've seen this first hand. You are relying on biased data. Laughable? What better defense can a person use, than being a first hand witness?
Of course the oil will be sold in the US, it will be the first market and we'll buy it back as always at a higher price too. Again, the day you stop dismissing your driving and flying or cruising usage, maybe I'll take you seriously.
As far as I'm concerned, you're a crank who refuses to think, instead serves up opinions of the populist agenda.

 

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