McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 09:41 am
@revelette,
What is "Truth Team"? Another dem shill org?

No such thing as a fact without backup and there is nothing to see there but speculation... no facts to be seen, just the same ol same ol.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 09:54 am
The Obama Truth Team is part of the Obama Biden web site. Any of those can be looked up and verified.

McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 11:19 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

The Obama Truth Team is part of the Obama Biden web site. Any of those can be looked up and verified.




I will await your doing so then. Thanks!
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 01:51 pm
How Romney's Plan Would Reward Foreign Outsourcing

McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 03:20 pm
@revelette,



Lets look in on the experts and what they have to say...

Quote:
During his tenure as president, Obama took a lot of criticism for his lack of private-sector business experience. To counter those attacks, he created two economic panels — the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, and the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform (known as Simpson-Bowles). The president appointed business executives to the CJC specifically to demonstrate that his policies were based on the expertise of the private sector.

What do they have to say about Romney's tax proposal? ABC's Jake Tapper reported that both of these two presidential advisory boards recommended exactly what Romney proposed. So did a third economic panel, the Export Council. Boeing CEO Jim McInerny wrote for the private-sector members of the Export Council in December 2010, urging Obama to adopt a "competitive territorial tax system for the United States" that ""should broadly follow the practice of our trading partners and should not be designed to raise new revenue." In the same month, the Simpson-Bowles commission wrote that the current U.S. tax system put American businesses at a disadvantage abroad, thanks to the foreign-tax issue.

And what about President Obama's own Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, formed to enhance common perception about Obama's economic policies? The panel not only supports the territorial tax plan proposed by Romney, it made the same argument at the end of last year that the lack of such reform kept badly-needed capital overseas — capital that could fuel job creation in the U.S., and protect American firms from foreign takeovers:

"[The territorial-tax reform] would eliminate the so-called lock-out effect in the current worldwide system of taxation that discourages repatriation and investment of the foreign earnings of U.S. companies in the United States. The current worldwide system makes investing these earnings in the United States more expensive from a tax point of view than reinvesting them abroad where they are not subject to additional corporate tax. These members believe that a territorial system would enhance the ability of U.S. companies to acquire foreign companies and would eliminate tax incentives of U.S. multinationals to merge with or sell their foreign operations to foreign companies. This would also reduce the vulnerability of domestic firms to takeover bids by foreign firms operating with lower tax rates. According to this view, a lower corporate tax rate and the adoption of a territorial system would increase the competitiveness of U.S. companies relative to their foreign counterparts in the United States and elsewhere, adding to the U.S. jobs that are needed to grow and support global growth."

Instead of making the case that Romney will increase off-shoring, Obama's refusal to adopt the territorial tax system that Obama's own advisers have repeatedly proposed makes the case that Obama can't grasp the problem at all. Furthermore, if Obama attacks Romney as an "outsourcer" and extremist in economics on this basis, the existence of these proposals within his own administration will deepen the impression that Obama's ethics make him just another politician willing to say anything to get re-elected, and incompetent on economics to boot. For a candidate whose main campaign promise was to change that very impulse in Washington, and whose economy has gone into serious retreat, that will all but eliminate any argument Obama has for a second term.


Let me know what you think after reading this.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 03:32 pm
@McGentrix,
Could you point out which experts wrote this piece? It looks like a political piece with no name that you can pin down. Would this have been writen by the Koch brothers?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 03:54 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Lets look in on the experts and what they have to say...

It's written by "TheWeek.com."

I'm afraid I'm not sure what expertise Mr. (or Ms.) TheWeek.com has when it comes to economics....
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:03 pm
@DrewDad,
Odd you'd trust Seth Hanlon beyond any doubt though. Do you really think MSN is now a republican base for talking points now?
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:09 pm
But, if you read the article, they actually have links showing the supporting documentation, unlike that Hanlon fellow.
Road Map to Renewal
Quote:
Corporate Tax Reform andTerritoriality

The 2011 Simpson-Bowles report and the report of the
President’s Export Council recommended that the United
States move to a territorial tax system. We recognize that
corporate tax reform, however, won’t happen without some
fundamental issues being resolved.
Many members of the Council agreed that the United
States should move to a territorial system of taxing corporate
income akin to the practices of the other developed
economies. Territoriality would eliminate the so-called
lock-out effect in the current worldwide system of taxation
that discourages repatriation and investment of the foreign
earnings of U.S. companies in the United States. The current
worldwide system makes investing these earnings in the United States more expensive from a tax point of view
than reinvesting them abroad where they are not subject to
additional corporate tax.
These members believe that a territorial system would
enhance the ability of U.S. companies to acquire foreign
companies and would eliminate tax incentives of U.S. multinationals
to merge with or sell their foreign operations to
foreign companies. This would also reduce the vulnerability
of domestic firms to takeover bids by foreign firms operating
with lower tax rates. According to this view, a lower
corporate tax rate and the adoption of a territorial system
would increase the competitiveness of U.S. companies relative
to their foreign counterparts in the United States and
elsewhere, adding to the U.S. jobs that are needed to grow
and support global growth.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:12 pm
In conclusion, the Obama campaign is still unable to run on it's achievement and is just flinging **** at a wall and hoping something sticks. Why do you guys keep trusting the continuous lies coming from then so blindly and yet your support doesn't waiver... Just becomes stronger somehow.

You like being lied to?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:15 pm
@McGentrix,
<yawn>

The whole robot meme falls flat, especially when you're far more kneejerk than I am.

I don't know who Seth Hanlon is, nor do I much care. Is that the author of Revelette's post? I didn't read it, because I don't find the whole argument over offshoring to be relevant to the issues that concern me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:19 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:

The 2011 Simpson-Bowles report


That's as far as I needed to read to know that I was looking at some bullshit. Simpson-Bowles was a complete failure; there WAS NO REPORT issued by that commission. Only a piece put out by the two who ran it after the commission failed in its task.

It's just the same warmed-over GOP message, repeated as a panacea for all problems, no matter what they look like: lower taxes, everything will be great!

What more, that same article relies on Rasmussen opinion polling without ever acknowledging that they are essentially a GOP polling organization. Every one of their polls is designed to produce a more conservative response than any of the other major polling outfits out there. It's hard to take stuff like this seriously - sure isn't an unbiased viewpoint.

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Rolling Eyes

Whatever. None so blind as those that will not see.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:24 pm
@McGentrix,
Good to see that you're obeying your programming.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:32 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Rolling Eyes

Whatever. None so blind as those that will not see.


Sure, don't bother responding to actual points people raise or anything, just roll your eyes - while calling OTHERS robots.

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:39 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Why bother replying? You don't seem interested in having a discussion about this stuff. No rebuttal to the propaganda being spread, refusing to read the evidence disputing it when presented, just scoffing it off.

Your post deserved an eyeroll, so that's what it got.

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:46 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Why bother replying? You don't seem interested in having a discussion about this stuff. No rebuttal to the propaganda being spread, refusing to read the evidence disputing it when presented, just scoffing it off.


If I didn't read the piece, how did I know that they were using a Rasmussen poll as part of their proof? How did I know they were citing Simpson-Bowles?

Of course, I read the whole thing. But I knew it was bullshit.

Quote:
Your post deserved an eyeroll, so that's what it got.


I put as much effort into responding it as you did in finding the piece and posting it without discussion in the first place.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

The 2011 Simpson-Bowles report


That's as far as I needed to read to know that I was looking at some bullshit. Simpson-Bowles was a complete failure; there WAS NO REPORT issued by that commission. Only a piece put out by the two who ran it after the commission failed in its task.


You mean this report? Looks like a report to me. Read it.

Quote:
It's just the same warmed-over GOP message, repeated as a panacea for all problems, no matter what they look like: lower taxes, everything will be great!

What more, that same article relies on Rasmussen opinion polling without ever acknowledging that they are essentially a GOP polling organization. Every one of their polls is designed to produce a more conservative response than any of the other major polling outfits out there. It's hard to take stuff like this seriously - sure isn't an unbiased viewpoint.

Cycloptichorn


Ignoring the rest because it includes a report from Rasmussen? Lame. It doesn't even have anything else to do with what's being discussed. Who gives a **** about a poll when the other information is still solidly backed up from Obama's own advisers. Let me say that again, from his OWN advisers.

From Obama's Export Council (Not a GOP message unless Obama is such a putz as to hire GOP people to advise him)
Quote:
the chairman of his Export Council, Boeing CEO Jim McNerney, writing on behalf of the private-sector appointed members of the Council, called for a “competitive territorial tax system for the United States,” one that “should broadly follow the practice of our trading partners and should not be designed to raise new revenue, or to destabilize the U.S. corporate tax base, but rather to make the US tax system more competitive with its major trading partners.”


I know, I know, more GOP BS... I understand your unwillingness to read it. I upsets your karma or something, right? The truth is never easy, but ignoring it won't help your guy win. This attack will just be another rung in Romney becoming the next President. Obama's campaign is falling apart and the people will recognize the desperation.



Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 04:59 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
You mean this report? Looks like a report to me. Read it.


That's the report that the commission DIDN'T approve. Maybe you should do a tiny bit of research on stuff before posting so confidently about it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Fiscal_Responsibility_and_Reform

Quote:
A report was released on December 1, 2010,[3] but failed a vote on December 3 with 11 of 18 votes in favor, with a supermajority of 14 votes needed to formally endorse the blueprint.[4]


Messrs. Simpson and Bowles released that report to the public when it became clear that the vote was going to fail. The commission ended with no official approved report.

So, yeah. You're totally wrong on this one. However, I have quite often seen right-wingers bring this up over the years without acknowledging this fact, because the recommendations of the report (which was authored in large part by fiscal conservatives) match their own policy goals.

Quote:
Ignoring the rest because it includes a report from Rasmussen? Lame.


Well, the evidence they cite for their conclusions is clearly suspect, so why should their conclusions be treated as rock-solid?

You then go on to report on the President's commission, saying:

Quote:
the chairman of his Export Council, Boeing CEO Jim McNerney, writing on behalf of the private-sector appointed members of the Council


So, the chairman of the council - Boeing's CEO - wants lower taxes, so businesses can save money?

Shocking!

And this part is just great:

Quote:

I know, I know, more GOP BS... I understand your unwillingness to read it.


My unwillingness to read it? Tell ya what. Why don't you report to us what the absolute last line of that report you linked to is? The last one on the last page. That will shed some light on why the 'recommendation' they are making in that letter is so in line with the traditional GOP position. I happened to notice that line when I, yaknow, read the report.

Did you read it? I have to ask, because you are representing this point as if it were a formal finding of the committee, instead of a letter written by HALF the committee. You did know that, right?

Quote:
This attack will just be another rung in Romney becoming the next President. Obama's campaign is falling apart and the people will recognize the desperation.


Riiiiiiiiight

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2012 05:12 pm
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k532/jakecutter/obama-tax-tweet.jpg

Cycloptichorn
 

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