Atheist Discussion

truth
Fresco, a very envious and bitter man once told me wryly that whenever he sees a very successful and happy man he exclaims "There but for the grace of God go I."

truth
Let's keep in mind, Osso that Twyvel's discussion of the non-existence of "I" is not a matter of whether or not you are here on this thread, AS OPPOSED TO BEING SOMEWHERE ELSE. It's a question of there not being an "I" anywhere. By the way, what's happened to Twyvel, haven't seen hide or hair of his non-self for a while now.
I do think that debate among atheists need not be confined to the fallacy of theism. It can also address the question of multiple forms of atheism. I, for one, do not consider my "passive" atheism to be at all like Madeline O'hair's "active" atheism. And it only partly resembles that of Frank. In other words, there can be issues between atheists. I thought that was the point of this thread.

No.

I am saying that I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaninful guess about the question: "Is there a God?"


I think I have enough evidence upon which to base a guess about the Bible and the god described in it.

MY GUESS: The Bible is a rather self-serving history of the early Hebrew people with a rather primitive deity mythology interspersed - the product of a band of relatively unknowledgeable, relatively unsophisticated, superstitious humans doing the best they could with what they had available.

The early Hebrews wanted a fairly vicious, jealous, demanding, barbaric god to protect themselves from the fairly vicious, jealous, demanding, barbaric gods of their perceived enemies -- so that is what they invented.

Or at least, that is my guess based on the evidence I have available to me.

Also I think I can make meaningful guesses about Zeus and company.

I was never comfortable with O'Hare's ranting and her organization. I believe the average atheist is not a crusader, but an individual with an independant mind. Most atheists would probably never give these kind of threads a thought if the religious were not always stepping on their toes.

That is what I thought Frank. Thanks.

Individual, this has been quite a read. The links provided by Mesquite have been very interesting--it's always fascinating to see how religions from the beginning of time have borrowed shamelessly from each other.

Occum, get Dys to tell you his story of a nude encounter of a neighboring rancher named Lee and some Jehovah's Witnesses. It has something to do with an apron.....

Like many of you, I was very young when I decided that religion was something I just couldn't believe. I took a long time to admit it to myself, because I very much wanted to fit in, but in the end, I decided that my mind was as capable of finding the truth as was that of the hellfire and brimstone preacher.

Like Farmerman, I wimp out with religious friends and tell them that I will pray for them in my own way--it can't hurt; in fact, good thoughts can be very healing.

I've been tempted to tell friends that I really care about that I'll pray for them when asked... but most close friends would know this is a lie and they'd have to carry the additional burden of being reminded that I'm going to hell for lying and blasphemy and whatnot. So, when I'm pressed, I find a sincere "If I did pray, I'd be praying for you right now." with a warm apologetic smile, seems to go a long way.
Ps I'm always up for an amusing, nekkid story! Fire at will Dys!

See, my wife is the same way. She's part of an email loop that has a lot of religous members. They're always asking for prayer requests, and what not.

She 'helps' by saying that she's thinking good thoughts that way. While it's not praying, it is very simular.

Sometimes. on A2K, when someone has a serious problem, I see people writing that they are "sending prayers". I cannot say that with any sincerity, so I simply say that I am thinking about the person. I used to write that I was "sending good vibes" their way, but that smacked too much of hippiedom.

BTW, I DO send "good vibes" to people that I like who are dealing with difficulty. I don't know if it helps THEM any, but it makes ME feel better!

We agnostics like to deal with the "I'm praying for you" issue about the same way you atheists do.

Every time anyone in A2K or over in Abuzz mentioned that they were praying for me -- I made a point of thanking them for their kind wishes. I often included a comment along the lines of, "And my good wishes are with you and yours also."

And I have absolutely no trouble doing so.

What the hell. My mom, before she died, was always telling me that she prayed for me -- and I know she meant well in doing so. She was concerned for me.

Hmmm. Sorta' like Thoreau's reply to his aunt. As he lay dying, the lady said, "Henry, make your peace with God." To which he replied, " Why, Auntie. I didn't know that we had quarreled."

Is there a God or not? Who really should care? If it turned out there were a bad God we would be screwed anyway. A benevolent God would not punish someone for stupid things like not believing or not worshipping. The Zen attitude of, 'death will come to pass; that will be the time to consider it,' is a good concept that works for me.

truth
What a sane bunch of folks. I'm privleged to have your company.

Re: truth




(You will excuse the expression, but....)

AMEN!

Amen. If only they didn't propose vegetarianism I could really get into Buddhism. Well, that is, if I decided I needed a belief system to begin with.

Laughter. The best defense against our sense of insecurity.

Me too on ya.

I usually say, 'Bugger that, send money'. One can be atheistic and practical at the same time :wink:

Jeez! :wink:

Usually I just send my love, or if I know people less well - hey if appropriate I still send love, what the hell. Otherwise I slightly change the subject, and ask questions, etc.

I never sent vibes even then, when vibes were in (too hard to package) and am way out of the scope of "white light". When I had my recent eye scare, I actually asked online pals not to send me "white light", thanks anyway.

Generally you get to know who gives a damn and all else is words.