When They say "I hate America", what do you think They mean?

Go to Korea, and you'll meet plenty.

Size does count.

Guatemalans, Salvadoreans and Hondurans (at least) have a hate-love-hate relationship with Mexico very similar to the one we have with the United States.
To them, we are "The Colossus of the North" (no kidding), they complain about Mexican economic and cultural "subimperialism" and about patronizing Mexicans who think they own the region.
The also complain about the US. But, then, who doesn't?

Edit: I forgot to add that we also expell them (300 thousand last year) when they try to migrate to the "Mexican promised land" or use our country as a passage way to the "American Dream".

Or China...

The Japan example is very illuminating. Japan is hated in its region.

Also relevant is that the US really does have an interest in every corner of the globe.

Even Antartica.

book mark

I beg to differ on that point. The North American Free Trade Agreement wasn't exactly the type of deal Canadians wanted and I know some politicians have, in the past, voiced the idea of rescinding the deal. (I think that's only come up around election time though. If we hadn't had a dumb ass prime minister at the time, I don't think the deal would have gone through.Then you have the lumber dispute, the grain situation and fishing. The latest has to be the whole "Canada is a haven for terrorists" report that U.S. intelligence has come up with. (The whole weapons of mass destruction in Iraq fiasco makes me question the intelligence on this latest report.) I'm sure things have changed now, but when I was a teen, I recall many stories of Americans visiting Canada only to be surprised at how "advanced" we were. In high school, a girl who was born in Canada but spent most of her life in New York, moved back with her family. Her father was a physician, so I imagine that is what made the transitions possible. She and her former classmates in New York thought she would be going to school with "eskimos" and people who lived in igloos. Gee, you Americans only live next door and yet you know (or knew) so little about us?

Some have made the comment of the U.S.A. being so large a presence in the world and I suppose that comes into play within Canada too. I think a lot of Canadians feel we are being "absorbed" by the U.S.A. with so much of our pop culture tied into the American one. A lot of what makes Canada distinct from the U.S. is being eroded, I think, due to business ties with the U.S.A. The premier of the province I live in seems to believe that the American way of government is the way to go based on what he's done to health care and education here, not to mention the deregulation that has been going on -- all to the detriment of the average taxpayer. Ah, but I digress here. Then you have situations like the Stanley Cup -- the "super bowl" of hockey. It hasn't resided with a winning Canadian team in over 10 years. Not that I think it matters now because hockey is less a sport and fan activity than it is a big business. Canadian hockey franchises can't possibly compete against the American dollar and two Canadian teams have already folded. I wonder how Americans would take to the idea of Canadians winning the world series year after year in their national sport of baseball? I've seen the Americans take umbrage over the fact competitors from Japan have been dominating Nathan's hot dog eating contest -- apparently an American tradition. Ahem.

In some ways I think the relationship between Canada and the U.S.A. is similar to rival communities. You know the ones I mean. Although the balance isn't quite the same. The American population is much greater than that found in Canada.

Your last comment on "where's the beef?" alludes to a more recent sore point with Canadians -- the beef industry. Now I'm a veggietarian so the ups and downs of the meat industry isn't going to change what's on my plate but I feel for those in the cattle industry that have lost their livelihood. The latest incidence of BSE was found in a cow that originated in Canada. But I would bet that if every single bovine creature was tested for BSE, you would find just as many American based cows with BSE as you would in Canada on a per capita basis. I think it's rather arrogant for Americans to say they don't have any BSE and it all originates from Canada. I've heard many in the industry (via television and newspaper interviews) state that the cattle industry between Canada and the U.S.A. is so intertwined that it would be unrealistic to say there is no BSE in the U.S.A.

Okay, I'm sort of getting off track here, but from the few anecdotes I've sited here, hopefully you will see a few examples of the way Canadians might view Americans. Generally speaking of course.

Personally speaking, I have several American friends that I don't view in a negative manner at all. And I have encountered many Americans online (including here) whose chatting company I have enjoyed. That isn't to say I haven't seen the "ugly American" because I have. But I've seen some nice people too. I'd say that I don't care for the way government south of the border works and that it does more for big business and less for the people. I guess I'd have to say that is what I dislike most about America.

Caprice,

I checked the economic data to verify your claims regarding Canada's trade balance overall and with the U.S. The latest data I could find was for 2002. It shows that Total Canadian exports were $260.5 Billion and total imports were $229 Billion, leaving a total trade surplus of $31.5 Billion. Of those totals 87.7% of the exports (or $228.5 B) and 62.6% of the imports (or $143.35B) were to and from the United States. This means that Canada ran a truly huge $85.15 Billion trade surplus with the United States and a trade deficit of $53.65 Billion with all of her other trading partners combined. So my original point stands. Canada enjoys great economic benefits from her trade with the United States, selling far more goods here than she buys from the U.S. NAFTA does not seem to have hurt Canada's trade as you have claimed.

As for the BSE matter in the cattle so tested,, we (and you) must simply deal with the facts as they unfold. I don't think there was any conspiracy to falsify the facts or to stigmatize Canada unduly. Our trading partners very quickly prohibited the import of U.S. beef after the discovery was made.

Others have noted our concerns over border controls and the potential legalization of pot. Both issues have a good deal to do with the preservation of a traditionally very relaxed and open border between us. Canada is the principal beneficiary of this openness. We are certainly free to make our own policies in these areas (as are you), but a degree of cooperation is required to keep the open border. If it doesn't happen then we adjust for the differences at the border.

I can't help you with the NHL. There are about 290 million Americans and about 32 million Canadians. Based on population distributions in the northern part of our country, that means there are likely to be about twice as many hockey fans in the U.S. as in Canada. While your partisanship may be quite understandable, resentment over these basic facts seems to be rather - well, I'll let you choose the words.

While it is true that many Americans don't know as much as they should about Canada, it seems fairly clear that there are also many Canadians who don't take the trouble to learn much about my country. There are ignorant and crude Canadians, just as there are ignorant and crude Americans. I have no reason to suppose the fractions are different on either side of the border.

I think part of Canada's resentment to the United States is the constant comparison. We are the little guys, completely over shadowed by Uncle Sam.

That being said, George while your stats may be correct, it doesn't paint a very clear picture of the true nature of trade between the US and anywhere else. Our largest trading partner is the US. Proximaty precludes this and Canadians prosper because of this. However, that doesn't mean we have the upper hand. We are at the mercy of your economy, your trade rules, your government and so on. (rather vague I know, but I daren't sway the intent of the thread too far) There will always be resentment in such circumstances.




I would also like to add, while the american government have, by and large, severely reduced aid to foreign countries, the people themselves have not. Yet regardless of their generosity, it is the government, the press at home and abroad rarely concentrate on it. Or do they?

No, I think size/power is greatly irrelevant to why Canadians commonly take exception to US policy.

Misuse of that power difference is rather more the issue, I think.

We've had the Ambassador to Canada, and the Drug Czar, both come here on numerous occasions and presume to instruct us (sometimes with threats) on how we ought to organize ourselves socially. The hubris supporting such presumption sits rather poorly here.

You know, you guys do watch too much hockey. And your beer sucks. (That's what John Candy said, isn't it?)

Ceili,

From what sources do you get the "constant comparisons"? I see very little criticism of Canada in the U.S. press, certainly far less than I see of the U.S. in Canadian publications. Here on A2K I see far more criticism of the U.S. by Canadians and others than I do of other countries by Americans. Indeed it is sometimes remarkable to note the ease with which others note and examine our many failings and imperfections (and they are many), while remaining apparently oblivious to their own. How many threads here on A2K have been dedicated specifically to fairly harsh criticisms of U.S. politics, culture and international policies? How many to the corresponding errors and failings of others?

I recognize that our situation in the world makes much of this both natural and inevitable. Please recognize, however, that there is little America can do about that. A century of European war and revolution has wiped out the wealth and power of our potential rivals, and left us more or less alone (and perhaps a bit disoriented). We didn't start those wars, although we did take leadership of their last phase - the Cold War with the Soviet Empire. Overall I believe we did that rather well.

With respect to Canada, I believe it was Premier Pierre Trudeau who compared life on our border to sleeping with an elephant. It is simply true that there are about nine Americans for each Canadian, and that there are proportional relative effects, both intended and unforeseen, of our governments' respective actions. The trade data tells an interesting story. Canadian anxiety over this and that potential trade decision by our government is certainly understandable, given the large potential relative effects. However it remains true that for several decades Canada has been the consistent overall winner in the economic give and take of international trade, enjoying a very large and consistent net export margin with the U.S., while we are overall a very serious net importer with both Canada and the world. What does it take to get you guys to shut up?

With respect to foreign aid, I believe that if personal cash transfers are taken into account (The money sent home by Indian, Central American, and other workers here) U.S. cash outflows to needy nations are almost equal (relatively) to those of European nations including government transfers. (We also need the money to finance that big military we think we need to deal with the potential crazies in this world - If Canada is willing to take responsibility for the taming of North Korea, it is welcome to it.) Our experience in aid to many third world nations has also taught us that there is little merit in pouring money down the throat of a kleptocracy or a socialist regime that will just steal and waste it. The sad states of affairs in post colonial Africa are not testimonials to either the wisdom or generosity of their former European masters. (And it will take a long time for Britain, France, Belgium and others to give back what they have taken.) Free enterprise and free trade for those who will choose it have proven to be far more effective in eliminating human misery.

patiodog,

I'm not with you on either the hockey or the beer. Their beer is pretty good, and overall they produce more first rate hockey players than we do. It's that they are just so goddam insecure about it all!

Did you know? On a Canadian two dollar bill, the flag flying over the Parliament building is an American flag.

I watch no hockey, so that isn't too much is it? And as for those that do watch hockey...uhm...I'm assuming this is a friendly jibe because Americans have waaaay more sports aired on their televisions than what is seen here in Canada.

And I don't drink beer either, so I can only echo the sentiments of those I know who have sampled both American and Canadian beers. I've been told that American beer is like a watered down version of Canadian beer and when I asked about that on another thread, I had several agreements. Have you tried Canadian beer? Not the stuff that is brewed there and has the Canadian beer company logo on the can/bottle but stuff FROM Canada. Then you could decide for yourself!

Hate to say this c.i., but that's an urban legend. I'd actually heard it was the $5 bill. I examined it with a magnifying glass, plus researched it on the 'net. It's actually the old Canadian flag. Or the Canadian Red Ensign.

caprice, You know how those legends are spread about the net. I've been had.

You quoted recent figures, but are they improved over figures prior to NAFTA? And Ceili has made some valid points regarding the trade issue. Although I am not up on all the facts and figures of it all (although it's something I shall investigate) there is one scenario I know to be true. I know it's only one, but it illustrates a possible negative trend. Prior to NAFTA, if an American company wanted to set up shop in Canada, a head office in Canada was required with, I believe, a Canadian at the helm. Today none of this is needed, thanks to NAFTA.



I didn't see any conspiracy either. But I do feel that American officials were quick to place the source of the downed cow as being from Canada. I thought it was very irresponsible of the officials involved to make such statements prior to receiving confirmation. Had it turned out to be false, the damage would have been done with other borders closed to Canada until they heard what the truth was. Since the animal was indeed sourced from Canada, it is somewhat of a moot point in terms of damage. But I still say the official involved should not have made any statements until he had confirmation. To me it seemed as if he was trying to divert attention away from the U.S. beef industry as soon as possible, without consideration to the damage it might create for another country.



You make it sound as though it is more advantageous for Canadians than it is for Americans. How is having an open border more advantageous to one country over the other?



I am merely pointing out an example of why there may be resentment. I didn't say it had to have reason to it. Certainly with a larger population on the U.S. side of the border there will be more people to support American teams. Even though I don't watch hockey, I still know that most of the interest in hockey was sparked with the transfer of Wayne Gretzky to the Kings. Prior to the sale of Gretzky, hockey was a different game. Hockey, and from what I've seen, almost all sports are more about business and money than about sportsmanship and fan participation. Uh oh, I'm going off on a tangent now and getting off track! But as I mentioned, reasons for resentment don't have to be based in facts. This particular example is, for hockey fans, not just an emotional one, but one that speaks to a tradition started in Canada, supported and cultivated by Canadians and now, no longer quite so Canadian, thanks to the takeover by American businesses.



Well sure there are rude Canadians. I encounter them every time I go driving!

Based on the Roper Survey conducted by the National Geographic Society, it would seem that the youth of both countries is equally abysmal in geographic knowledge and so maybe this is true of what knowledge the youth has in general about our respective countries. However, I do know that in the past, Canadians knew more about the United States than vice versa and any resentment that currently exists is deep rooted beyond some of the examples I gave. As Ceili mentioned, part of it is being in the shadow of the U.S. (For example being asked "oh are you from America?" when you visit a different country.)

As a last word on the view of Americans by Canadians, you might want to read the following site from Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper.

Friendly Canadians buck anti-U.S. trend

*LOL* c.i.! I am surprised! I thought you would be a little more cynical about 'net stuff.

I usually am, but this one came from a friend that's pretty reliable on 'truth.'

*L* Hey, I know exactly what you mean! I got caught in one of those situations myself. A friend of mine said she got an e-mail from someone reliable....and....well....did you hear about the terrorist thing in malls on Hallowe'en 2001? I totally fell for it and told my boss at work. She informed me it was a hoax. Did I feel like a fool or what! *L*

Yeah, if we can't trust our friends, who can we trust? <grin>

I suppose I should have been more specific...at least half if not more is done by ourselves, it's a national pastime.
I had no idea I was criticizing anyone. I was, within the context of the question, trying to give a fair answer. I suggest you re-read my post.


I think that pretty much sums up american hatred in a nutshell.
Shut up or Put up, your dukes as it were....

I have rarely had a bad encounter with an american. I have visited many places throughout the US and alway had a great time. I find most americans are just like me, my friends and family and so on. But, as a people, as a government, as a force to be reckoned with, you are rather domineering.
The government decides they don't like a policy of a trading partner they throw a embargo. This throws local economies into turmoil.

This is silly case but a highly recognizable case of american protectionism, the implications are bothersome, don't you agree? Shwarzenager(sic) (can't be bothered) decides canada - a major consumer of hollywood glitz shouldn't share in the production profits, the only? substantial agenda of his political agenda, and he gets elected.