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When They say "I hate America", what do you think They mean?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 03:45 pm
You were saying something about Lutherans, george?
hmmm
tap tap tap
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 05:13 pm
yeah, what she said...........
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 07:18 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_and_Ethan_Coen

Quote:
Joel and Ethan Coen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Joel and Ethan Coen, commonly called The Coen Brothers in the film business, are United States directors best known for their quirky comedies like Fargo and Raising Arizona; the brothers write their own scripts and alternate top billing for the screenplay. Joel gets credit for directing the films, but the two brothers work so closely together and share such a strong vision of what their film is to be that actors report that they can approach either brother with a question and get the same answer. The brothers are known in the film business as "the two-headed director."

Joel Coen was born November 29, 1954, and has been married to actress Frances McDormand since 1984; they have an adopted baby named Pedro. Ethan Coen was born September 21, 1957, and is married to film editor Tricia Cooke. Both are frequently credited in their own films as editor under the name "Roderick Jaynes." The Coen Brothers grew up in St. Louis Park, Minnesota, a suburb of Minneapolis. Their parents were both professors, with their father's specialty in Economics, and their mother's in Art History.


Table of contents [showhide]
1 The Coen Brothers' Stylistic Devices

2 Dialogue

3 Storyboarding

4 Camera Techniques

4.1 The "Raimi cam" Rush
4.2 Lenses
4.3 Camera Angles
4.4 Disguised Cuts

5 Blood and Guts

6 Film Noir and Misunderstanding

7 Depictions of various cities, states, and regions of America

8 The Coen Brothers Circle

9 Filmography

10 External links




The Coen Brothers' Stylistic Devices
Owing a heavy debt to film noir and other film styles of the past, the Coen brothers' films combine dry humor with sharp irony and shocking visuals, most often in moving camera shots. The Coens prefer not to put the opening credits at the very beginning of the film.

Dialogue
The Coen brothers' films typically feature a combination of dry wit, exaggerated language, and glaring irony. The brothers frequently use dialogue to develop characters and advance plot. The exaggerated language is sometimes erudite (as in Tom's "if I'd known we were going to cast our feelings into words, I'd have memorized the Song of Solomon") but more often failed erudition ("Jesus, Tom, I was just speculatin' about a hypothesis" (Miller's Crossing), "You know, it's proven that cigarettes are carci--carci--cancer-causing" (Fargo), and The Dude's imitation of Maude's "in the parlance of our times," appending it with "You know?... Man?" (The Big Lebowski).)

Storyboarding
The Coen brothers storyboard their films extensively before filming. They state that it helps them get the budget they want as they can show where most of the money will be going.

Camera Techniques
Visually, the Coens favor moving camera shots, especially tracking shots and crane shots; when the camera is "static" it is often still drifting slightly. Their films are also distinguished by cinematic visual flourishes that mark turning points in their films.

The "Raimi cam" Rush
Occasionally in their tracking shots they "rush" the camera forward, as in the scene in Raising Arizona where Nathan Jr. is discovered missing; the Coen brothers dubbed the rush forward the "Raimi cam" in tribute to their longtime friend and director Sam Raimi, who used rushes extensively in Evil Dead (which Joel Coen helped edit). The Hudsucker Proxy features not one but two consecutive rushes when Norville shows Mussburger's secretary the Blue Letter: first on the mouth of the lady screaming on the ladder, and then on Norville reacting to the scream.

Lenses
The Coen brothers' earlier films made extensive use of wide-angle lenses. Cinematographer Roger A. Deakins (who replaced Barry Sonnenfeld when Sonnenfeld left to pursue a directing career) has been trying to wean them off of the lenses since he started working with them (the lenses allow great depth of field but also cause considerable distortion in the apparent size of objects based on how far they are from the camera). Deakins has been working towards longer lenses, which appear to shorten the distance between objects, but have shallower depth of field.

Camera Angles
The Coen brothers use camera angles which sometimes hide rather than reveal information, as in Fargo when Jean Lundegaard is hiding in the shower, in Miller's Crossing when Tom goes into his room after Leo leaves, (Verna is on the bed behind him), and in Blood Simple when Abby is sitting up in bed with Ray and the Volkswagen pulls up outside her window.

Disguised Cuts
They also frequently "hide" their cuts in a close-up on an object, in the style of Hitchcock's Rope: one occurrence of this is obvious in Fargo, when Carl is banging on the television to get it to work (when the picture finally comes in clearly it is in fact a cut to Marge's television as seen from her bed). The brothers make a similar cut in Miller's Crossing when the close up of the window at Vernie's house pans away to show a man dead on the floor at another; in The Hudsucker Proxy when Amy Archer is cheering "Go Eagles!" after Norville hires her (the film cuts to her showing the same cheer to her coworker at the newspaper); and in Blood Simple when the "close-up" of the ceiling fan over Marty's head at the bar turns out to be from Abby's point of view on the couch at Ray's house.

Blood and Guts
The Coens also show a fascination with both blood and vomit; Miller's Crossing, Barton Fink, and Blood Simple all show elaborate puddles of blood, whereas in Fargo it's a wide spray in the snow coming from a wood chipper; Tom vomits in Miller's Crossing once off-screen at his house and once on-screen in the crossing itself; Marty vomits in Ray's yard in Blood Simple, and then vomits again on the floor later (but this time it's a torrent of blood); Charlie vomits off-screen in Barton Fink; and Marge bends over to vomit but doesn't in Fargo.

Film Noir and Misunderstanding
Stylistically, Coen Brothers movies show a heavy debt to film noir, featuring stark contrast in lighting (most notably in Blood Simple, Miller's Crossing, and Fargo) and the typical theme of people being in over their heads in a scheme. Their movies often deal with kidnapping. A near universal plot device is misunderstanding: misunderstanding over who killed The Rug and who took his hair causes friction between different mobs in Miller's Crossing; misunderstanding of Norville's blueprint causes him some grief later in The Hudsucker Proxy; everyone except for the nihilists in The Big Lebowski misunderstands Bunny's kidnapping; and in Blood Simple, misunderstanding is the driving force behind the entire plot past the thirty-minute mark.) The Coen brothers' film The Man Who Wasn't There pays homage to film noir, with a plot that seems an update/twist of The Postman Always Rings Twice. The film is in black and white and has been lauded by various critics for both its cinematography and its sharply drawn, fairly sympathetic characters, though many critics take issue with the sharp turn in plot towards the end.

Depictions of various cities, states, and regions of America
The various aspects that make the character of a city, state or region of America are an integral component in several Coen Brothers films. "Raising Arizona" strongly featuresthe distinct landscape Arizona landscape, and some of the movie's characters were stereotypes of typical Arizonans. Similarly, in "Fargo" the landscape and accents of North Dakota and Minnesotta are an essential component of the film. "The Big Lebowski" is the Coen's Los Angeles film, with the Dude and other characters as emblamatic of the city's ecclectic population. "O Brother Where Art Thou" is distinctly Southern, as it was filmed in rural Mississippi, most of the characters speak with pronounced Southern accents, and the soundtrack is a mix of old country and folk songs. "Barton Fink" is in some respects a satire on another famous area of Los Angeles - Hollywood. There are several scenes in the movie that in the Coen Brother's distinctly farcical way, paint the movie industry, and movie executives in particular, in a very unflattering light.

The Coen Brothers Circle
The Coens used Barry Sonnenfeld as cinematographer through Miller's Crossing; then Sonnenfeld left to direct his own films and has had great success at it with The Addams Family, Get Shorty, and, most notably, Men in Black. Roger A. Deakins has been the Coen brothers' cinematographer since Sonnenfeld's departure.
Sam Raimi also helped write The Hudsucker Proxy, which the Coen brothers directed; and the Coen brothers helped write Crimewave, which Raimi directed; Raimi took tips about filming A Simple Plan from the Coen brothers, who had recently finished Fargo (both films are set in blindingly white snow, which reflects a lot of light and can make metering for a correct exposure tricky).

The Coen brothers frequently work with actors John Turturro, Steve Buscemi, Frances McDormand, John Goodman, and Jon Polito; as of 2003, all of their films had been scored by Carter Burwell, with occasional help from T-Bone Burnett and others.


Filmography
The Ladykillers (2004)
Intolerable Cruelty (2003)
The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)
The Big Lebowski (1998)
Fargo (1996)
The Hudsucker Proxy (1994)
Barton Fink (1991)
Miller's Crossing (1990)
Raising Arizona (1987)
Blood Simple (1985)


No one named Miller's Crossing as their favorite. Listen to me, george (and I am indeed impressed), Miller's Crossing is the best and Oh Brother next...........that's my opinion.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:46 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
george, If you're expecting "slavish agreement," you're going to be disappointment more often than not. You already know that! Wink


You may be right, Cicerone.

I've begun to detect a pattern...
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:53 pm
hmmmmmm

and dlowan just detected a theme elsewhere ...



what's going on around here ? !
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Ygge
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Mar, 2004 04:21 am
Fedral wrote:


I would like to see Europe feed all of Africa. I would like to see Asia provide disaster support during a crisis.

I would like Africa to do ANYTHING for itself.

Just my rant for today.


OECD 'simulation' for 2006 :

donor - $m
eu - 29
us - 12.9
japan - 9.0

http://www.un.org/esa/ffd/1003hld-crp-oecd.pdf
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 05:55 am
Welcome, Ygge!

Thanks for your input.

KP
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Relative
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 12:20 pm
Several pages ago, we had a discussion about Kosovo.
Let me update you :

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4612350&section=news

This time it looks like the Albanians want to drive the 100.000 Serbs that still persist in Kosovo out. I hope our debate did not influence that Embarrassed
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2004 02:33 pm
ygge, WECOME to A2K. c.i.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 06:12 am
Any discussion on the topic 'why do other's not much like America sometimes?' won't get the answers right if America's corporate presence and behavior in the world is omitted. Of course, the Exxon Valdez came aground in the US, but where she came aground is the variable...the behavior that followed is the part which is entirely predictable.
Quote:
Shortly after the Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989, a senior Exxon representative visited the devastated fishing communities of southern Alaska and promised them the company would do everything in its power to restore their livelihoods and "make them whole".

"We're Exxon, we do it right," is the slogan that has stuck in the mind of Dune Lankard, a local Native American activist.

But 15 years to the day since a drunken sea captain drove his oil tanker on to a reef in Prince William Sound, covering one of the world's most pristine stretches of coastline with at least 11 million gallons of crude, the feeling among fishermen, environmentalist activists and the lawyers representing them is that Exxon has not only broken its original promise but has gone out of its way to betray them in pursuit of broader corporate interests.

Exxon, whose net income for 2003 is expected to top $21bn, has not paid out a penny of the $5bn (£2.7bn) in damages originally awarded to the fishing communities a decade ago...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=504799

Or take Bophal India, where Dow has yet to pay a single goddamn penny to the victims of their chemical spill (a health consequence with no significant different to Sadaam gassing the Kurds). This sort of utter irresponsible selfishness in the name of 'making a buck' or 'for the shareholders' (and subsequent legal bullying) isn't uniquely American, but there is likely no one worse.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 10:04 am
Or, take Halliburton et al.................
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 10:14 am
It's true. That corporate mantra "we've got to protect the rights of the shareholders" is not wholly American, but it does reek of Wall Street's unbelievable grasping for a profit. It seems that the United States leads the way in maintaining the absolute righteousness of an economic system based on greed.

Quote:
The "three poisons" of greed, hatred and delusion are to some extent present in every human being, but cultural systems either encourage or discourage these traits. Today's global consumer culture nurtures the "three poisons" on both an individual and a societal level.


from: Norberg-Hodge "A Buddhist's Commentary on the Global Economy"
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 10:16 am
But Jamacia loves us - they have more US corporations than they have citizens...............
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 10:23 am
You mean that the US has a lead in *gasp* capitalism?! Shocked
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 06:16 pm
Relative wrote:
Several pages ago, we had a discussion about Kosovo.
Let me update you :

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4612350§ion=news

This time it looks like the Albanians want to drive the 100.000 Serbs that still persist in Kosovo out. I hope our debate did not influence that Embarrassed


Yeh - the whole story sucks. The day after, I saw this gruesome juxtaposition of photos on the front page of one of the papers here - on the left, the Orthodox church in Srbica, on fire, on the right, the mosque of Nis, on fire. The lunacy of it couldnt have been illustrated better.

This Washington Post story has the same rundown:

Quote:
Ethnic Albanians burned houses and churches and drove hundreds of Serbs from towns and villages across Kosovo yesterday, while Serbs outside the province retaliated by setting ablaze mosques in Serbia.


I was talking about this today with Anastasia. I'm reading this book, I cited it last time round, Ger Duijzing's "Religion and the Politics of Identity in Kosovo". I've just read the chapter that recounts how the small Croat community of Kosovo collectively decamped to Slavonia in 1992, after the war broke out, because they were afraid of their Serb neighbours (and a visiting Seselj ...). He calls it "the great ethnic unmixing" somewhere. Throughout the nineties, the former Yugoslavia has violently gone about forging those would-be ethnically homogenous nation-states out of the quilt of ethnic shatterzones and ambiguous identities.

Of course, we did the very same thing, a couple of centuries ago. The ethnic homogenity, which the modern French (German, Dutch, Italian) state arrived at midway through the last century, was itself forged no less in blood and war. Its just so sad that just when in the West the myth of the nation-state is being fragmented again into a more natural caleidoscope of regional, national and transnational identities and affiliations, the Yugoslavs are still caught in the mass murder that springs forth from wanting to realise that myth. Its all such a goddamn waste.
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