Reply
Mon 21 May, 2012 11:23 am
John and I will/shall be going to the movies this evening.
Should 'will' or 'shall' be used?
Thank you.
@tanguatlay,
I'd used will, as I'm not very hoity toity.. lol
Will is more commonly used here in N. America, shall would be considered very old fashioned.
Will can imply volition or intention, while shall can imply necessity:
I will scale Mount Everest. (“and no one can stop me!”)
You shall take the garbage out before you do anything else. (“You have no choice, Junior!”)
A second element enters into the use of shall and will.
As a matter of courtesy, a difference exists according to whether the verb is used with a first or second person subject. Which to use depends upon the relationship between speakers.
Parents, teachers, employers, and staff sergeants are within their rights to tell someone “You shall complete this assignment by 9 p.m.” Such a construction offers no alternative. It is the same as saying “You must complete this assignment.”
In speaking to an equal, however, the choice is left up to the other person:
I shall drive to Tulsa today. You will follow on Tuesday. (It’s still up to you.)
Here’s a frequently quoted joke that illustrates the consequences of using shall and will incorrectly:
A foreign tourist was swimming in an English lake. Taken by cramps, he began to sink. He called out for help:
“Attention! Attention! I will drown and no one shall save me!”
Many people were within earshot, but, being well-brought up Englishmen and women, they honoured his wishes and permitted him to drown.
@contrex,
contrex wrote:Here’s a frequently quoted joke that illustrates the consequences of using shall and will incorrectly:
Quoted by who, the criminally insane?'
@OmSigDAVID,
I was about to comment on that myself, David. But I'm terrified of JTT's wrath.
___________________
When I was learning the English language in school, we were told that 'will' was proper for the 2d and 3d person while 'shall' was preferred for first person construction. But,inasmuch as English wasn't a first language even for the teachers, I doubt that they knew what they were talking about.
@tanguatlay,
Quote:John and I will/shall be going to the movies this evening.
Should 'will' or 'shall' be used?
As Ceili has noted, 'will' would be the most common choice, but 'shall' is possible. The latter sounds more formal or with the right intonation and context, serious.
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
When I was learning the English language in school, we were told that 'will' was proper for the 2d and 3d person while 'shall' was preferred for first person construction. But,inasmuch as English wasn't a first language even for the teachers, I doubt that they knew what they were talking about.
You're right, Merry. They knew as much about English as Contrex's teachers.
Quote:I was about to comment on that myself, David. But I'm terrified of JTT's wrath.
The truth always protects, Merry. What you were really afraid of was spouting more nonsense.
@izzythepush,
Quote:Not in Southampton.
Certainly in Southampton, Izzy, just as it is an option anywhere in the English speaking world. The operative word is "option", and though I haven't seen corpus studies for all dialects, I'd say that 'whom' is not the more common choice.
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:
I'd used will, as I'm not very hoity toity.. lol
Will is more commonly used here in N. America, shall would be considered very old fashioned.
We shall overcome does have more authority than wimpy -- We will overcome
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
contrex wrote:Here’s a frequently quoted joke that illustrates the consequences of using shall and will incorrectly:
Quoted by who, the criminally insane?'
No, just people who are speak a dialect (standard British English) where there is the possibility of a difference between 'will' and 'shall' and wish to convey that difference in a clear and brief fashion.
@contrex,
Quote:No, just people who are[sic] speak a dialect (standard British English) where there is the possibility of a difference between 'will' and 'shall' and wish to convey that difference in a clear and brief fashion.
Contrex, please stop offering these uninformed opinions, until and unless, you take remedial classes in English.
Quote:There is a well-known prescriptive rule that treats shall and will as complementary:
...
The classic illustration contrasts the drowning man's fill in with Contrex's story] ... . It is quite clear, however, that this rule is not valid.
The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, pg 195
@Rickoshay75,
Ironically, when the song was first written it was " We will overcome".
All my first generation family still use the word, but they are from the UK, it's to be expected and it's never misunderstood. I'm not saying it's wrong or any less impressive, it's just not normally part of everyday speech. Here.
Where my aunt might say, shall I pour you a glass of wine, I would say should/could I pour you a bath? It's a local preference.
@contrex,
contrex wrote:
Parents, teachers, employers, and staff sergeants are within their rights to tell someone “You shall complete this assignment by 9 p.m.” Such a construction offers no alternative.
You can't believe how many sergeants I've heard say "You
WILL". . . .
I hope you understand I'm not offering up Army Sergeants as authorities on grammar.
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Quote:No, just people who are[sic] speak a dialect (standard British English) where there is the possibility of a difference between 'will' and 'shall' and wish to convey that difference in a clear and brief fashion.
Contrex, please stop offering these uninformed opinions, until and unless, you take remedial classes in English.
Quote:There is a well-known prescriptive rule that treats shall and will as complementary:
...
The classic illustration contrasts the drowning man's fill in with Contrex's story] ... . It is quite clear, however, that this rule is not valid.
The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, pg 195
So, where's the clear explanation that this rule is invalid?
@InfraBlue,
You have the citation, Infra. Get thee to a library.
@OmSigDAVID,
You had to be there, David. The events leading up to the "You Will. . ." were seldom humorous.
@roger,
Quote:I hope you understand I'm not offering up Army Sergeants as authorities on grammar.
Believe it or not, Roger, even you are an authority on grammar.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace