I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

@failures art,

Let’s take a look at this:

Quote:

First statement (I do not believe gods exist)
Gods you believe in ==0;

Second statement (I do not believe no gods exist)
Gods you believe in >=1;

This is irresolvable.

That is as textbook of a contradiction as it comes. You defy me to do this, and it is done. Only your ego prevents you from owning up to this.

Can you truly not see your error in logic here?

Honestly?

The first statement merely says that I do not have a belief in the existence of any gods. I am not willing to express a belief that any gods exist. Yes, there is ZERO belief in the existence of gods.

The second statement merely says that I do not have a belief that there are no gods. I am not willing to express a belief that gods do not exist. There is ZERO belief in the non-existence of gods.

How in the name of sanity can anyone possibly see any contradiction in that?

How can any intelligent person possibly consider that to be “irresolvable?”

What kind of game are you playing here?

Only your ego is preventing you from acknowledging that there is no contradiction whatsoever.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation...read the response again. I have no idea of what game you are playing here, but unless you think I am a complete idiot...a lying, hypocritical idiot at that...you must at least sense that I am not just spouting nonsense.

I have no belief that says: There is a GOD or are gods.

I have no belief that says: There are NO gods.

There is no contradiction. It is a logical construct.

The thing you are getting hung up on...and which I wanted to highlight since I mentioned I wanted to show the danger associated with the use of the word “believe.” My quote: “The use of the word “believe” can lead to disorientation if you are not careful…and I want to point that out.”

You want to assume that when I say “I do not believe gods exist”….that I am saying “I believe gods do not exist.” BUT I AM NOT…and I have pointed that out many times. The words mean exactly what I said with them: I DO NOT BELIEVE GODS EXIST. And I do not. I have no belief that goes: Gods exist.

I also DO NOT BELIEVE GODS DO NOT EXIT. That does not mean I believe gods exist…it simply tells you that I do not have a belief that gods do not exist. And I do not. I have no belief that goes: Gods do not exist.

Stop playing the game, Joe Nation.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
Several people, me included, have shown that your first statement:
I do not believe gods exist
is negated by your second statement:
But I do not believe there are no gods.

there's a difference between grammar and philosophy

you haven't shown anything meaningful in reference to Frank's thread title

Sure, but Frank made this statement specifically in the context of logic (standard logic, at least), and it is by the standards of logic that we are pointing out to Frank that it isn't logical.

We know what he's trying to say. He's saying it very ineptly in terms of logic.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Blue,

There are people who “believe” gods exist.

I am not one of them. In other words, I do not “believe” gods exist.

There are people who “believe” there are no gods.

I am not one of them. In other words, I do not “believe” there are no gods.

That is all I have ever said here:

I do not believe gods exist...I do not believe there are no gods.

What do you see as inept or illogical about that?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

There are people who “believe” there are no gods.

I am not one of them.

Frank... if a priest said this what would you think he meant?

Also added later...

If an athiest said...

Frank Apisa wrote:

There are people who “believe” gods exist.

I am not one of them.

... would you think they were a theist or an atheist or neither?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

See Chai's post.

1 Reply

Quote:

What do you see as inept or illogical about that?

Your use of the word 'believe' is inept; you don't do believing you've said, so don't use the word.
Rewrite.
You don't have a belief, so leave belief/believe out of it.
I've got it.
I'm trying to help here.
You have no beliefs regarding gods.

Now say that without getting entangled with beliefs/believe.

You warned early on that the word 'believe' could lead to trouble, so leave it out.
Use some of the other 171,476 words English has to offer.

Joe( ♪♫♪♫♪♫♫♫ )Nation

1 Reply

What is the reality here:

Frank is correct but those that say they disagree are either:

All too stupid to understand his argument.

or

Are all conspiring to make Frank look stupid by pretending not to understand his argument.

or

All the contributors who disagree are correct and Frank is wrong but he fails to see this either deliberatly or ... ??? for some other reason.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Can you truly not see your error in logic here?

It's not my logic, it's yours. I'm deconstructing it for you to point out your problems.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The first statement merely says that I do not have a belief in the existence of any gods. I am not willing to express a belief that any gods exist. Yes, there is ZERO belief in the existence of gods.

Correct.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The second statement merely says that I do not have a belief that there are no gods. I am not willing to express a belief that gods do not exist. There is ZERO belief in the non-existence of gods.

Incorrect.

So...
A==0;
...and ...
-(A)!=0;

DNE

Your math is wrong. Partial credit will be given. If you want to rework your problems and resubmit, I'll regrade it.

Frank Apisa wrote:

How in the name of sanity can anyone possibly see any contradiction in that?

Because I see the flaws in your assumptions. Flaws in your assumptions lead you logically to incorrect conclusions.

Frank Apisa wrote:

How can any intelligent person possibly consider that to be “irresolvable?”

Because I see the flaws in your assumptions. Flaws in your assumptions lead you logically to incorrect conclusions.

Frank Apisa wrote:

What kind of game are you playing here?

A logic game. You're not doing so hot.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Only your ego is preventing you from acknowledging that there is no contradiction whatsoever.

You have arrived at the I'm-rubber-you're-glue position. Thanks for being reliably predictable on that.

A
R
T

0 Replies

@Joe Nation,

Quote:

Your use of the word 'believe' is inept; you don't do believing you've said, so don't use the word.
Rewrite.
You don't have a belief, so leave belief/believe out of it.
I've got it.
I'm trying to help here.
You have no beliefs regarding gods.

Now say that without getting entangled with beliefs/believe.

You warned early on that the word 'believe' could lead to trouble, so leave it out.
Use some of the other 171,476 words English has to offer.

Since one of the things I was trying to establish was the difficulty the word "believe" could cause...it made perfect sense.

Why not just acknowledge that the comment makes sense.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Let me know if I'm on ignore Frank... there is a post you seem to be ignoring (along with several others that I'm not bothered about now):

http://able2know.org/topic/190405-41#post-5000573

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Yeah, I can understand that. Obviously you have had interaction with Setanta! It can be an ordeal.

Yep it was about the size of my brain or lack of... Laughing

0 Replies

@igm,

I have NEVER put anyone on ignore...and I never will.

Sometimes I ignore bullshit, but I am going back to see what I missed in your link. I do not remember ignoring any bullshit from you.

Be back with a response in a bit.

0 Replies

@igm,

Sorry I missed this igm.

Quote:

Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5000563)
Frank Apisa wrote:

There are people who “believe” there are no gods.

I am not one of them.

Frank... if a priest said this what would you think he meant?

I’d think he meant that he is not one of the people who “believe” there are no gods.

Quote:

If an athiest said...

Frank Apisa wrote:

There are people who “believe” gods exist.

I am not one of them.

... would you think they were a theist or an atheist or neither?

The only way I would know if it were an atheist saying it, would be if I knew the person was an atheist. And more than likely I would think the person to be an atheist.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

It makes sense.
I acknowledge that the comment makes sense AND that you would be well advised to abide by your own warning.
Leave out any reference to believe and you'll be well on your way to making complete sense.

Go ahead, try it. Just try it. You asked for advice, I'm offering you advice.

Take out 'believe.'

Joe(what's that say?)Nation

0 Replies

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

See Chai's post.

Chai is incorrect in that post.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank do you think that the video below would help people to better understand your position of not believing?

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

What is your handicap??

I can only guess it is not believing Rolling Eyes

Franks handy cap at times is his own thinking. Did you know that frank thinks that you are agnostic and he does not believe that you are a prophet?

I can read frank's mind Wink

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

I think Linda is one hot chick. I enjoyed the movie from which this is an excerpt. I watched only a second or two of it to determine what it was about...but I really do not want to watch 9 minutes of it.

I do remember thinking there was some decent points made in an otherwise rather schlocky movie.

Thanks for recommending it, though.

0 Replies

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Re: XXSpadeMasterXX (Post 4998845)
Quote:
What is your handicap??

Quote:
I can only guess it is not believing

Since we have had so many disagreements, RL, I think it only fair to mention that I considered answering SpadeMaster's question with, "Apparently one of my major handicaps is that I do not "believe" things?"

I think this is where some people might write, "Great minds....!"

Quote:

Franks handy cap at times is his own thinking.

That is something that can be said for almost anyone and everyone.

Quote:

Did you know that frank thinks that you are agnostic and he does not believe that you are a prophet?

I do not believe SpadeMaster is a prophet; I also do not believe SpadeMaster is not a prophet. I simply do not have a "belief" on the matter. I may have an assessment or an opinion...but I would never call it anything other than an assessment or an opinion.

Quote:

I can read frank's mind

I do not believe you can read my mind...and I do not believe you cannot read my mind. I simply do not have a "belief" on the matter.

2 Replies

I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

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