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I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

Forums: Religion, Word Salad, Logic, Apisa Match, Not Atheism
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izzythepush
 
  2  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 01:55 am
@Jasper10,
Unfortunately Jasper, you do exist, and don't we all know it.
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 02:05 am
@izzythepush,
Do you exist izzy?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 02:11 am
@Jasper10,
You're making me wish I didn't.
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 02:12 am
@izzythepush,
HaHa fair enough…
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 03:37 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I would suggest that some people have an issue with natures full logic table when it comes to the question of whether they exist or not.

1.I don’t exist…..I don’t exist.
2.I don’t exist….I do exist.
3.I do exist…..I don’t exist.
4.I do exist…I do exist.

I would suggest that they don’t have an issue with items 1 to 3.

Item 4 however, they wrestle with.


What is this about?

What does it have to do with the topic of this thread?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 03:42 am
@Frank Apisa,
Jasper has gone down his own little rabbit hole with this by claiming that saying God/gods don't exist is the same as saying you don't exist.

I think he's just been given a book on solopsism.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 04:27 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Jasper has gone down his own little rabbit hole with this by claiming that saying God/gods don't exist is the same as saying you don't exist.

I think he's just been given a book on solopsism.


Oh. I just did not get the connection. Not sure why he think that. Doesn't seem to have a logical thread to it. But if he wants to follow up on it, I'm willing to hear him out.

Thanks for the explanation, Izzy. Hope all is well with you.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 04:41 am
@Frank Apisa,
I'm a bit miserable.

I had the Pfizer covid jab on Thursday and my arm is still very painful.

Hope you're OK.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 05:01 am
@izzythepush,
I'm great. Weather has been terrific, so I am golfing every day. Lots of walking makes me feel fine.

My wife and I got the initial two jabs of Moderna...then two boosters after. And about a month ago we had the booster for the Omicron variant. So far...so good. I never did get much site pain...but Nancy did.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 05:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
I had a flu jab last week with v little side effects, but this one is a right sod.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 07:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank.

Do you believe that you exist or do you believe you don’t exist?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 09:11 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Frank.
Do you believe that you exist or do you believe you don’t exist?


I do not "believe" I exist...AND...

...I also do not "believe" I do not exist.

I do not do "believing" Jasper.

Are you supposing one must "believe" one or the other?

If so, you are making the same mistake so many have made on the original issue of this thread. They are supposing that one must either "believe" there is at least one GOD...or "believe" there are no gods.

Common enough mistake. But one does not have to "believe" either way. One can simply acknowledge that one does not know...and one prefers not to make a guess.

As for my guess (if forced to make one) about whether I exist or not...I would probably guess "I do exist." But the complexities of existence (and the challenges of concepts like "I" or "me" are so daunting), I would only do so after acknowledging that it is a guess.

Jasper10
 
  -2  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 09:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Do you accept that if you have the capability to guess whether you exist or not means you exist otherwise you wouldn’t have the capability to guess?


InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 10:46 am
@Jasper10,
The doubt begins with the definition of "exist."
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 11:16 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Do you accept that if you have the capability to guess whether you exist or not means you exist otherwise you wouldn’t have the capability to guess?


"I" do not accept that.

As Blue mentioned, there is a problem with the meaning of "exist"...and as I mentioned earlier, the notions of "I" and "me" (and for that matter "you")...is so daunting...I prefer to remain agnostic on the question.

Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 11:17 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

Do you accept that if you have the capability to guess whether you exist or not means you exist otherwise you wouldn’t have the capability to guess?





That having been said, though, I still am interested in where you would go if my answer (or someone else's answer) were..."Yes, I accept that I exist."

Would you mind fleshing that out?
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 11:47 am
@Frank Apisa,
So are you claiming that it is possible to make an assertion one way or the other but not exist then?
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 12:35 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

So are you claiming that it is possible to make an assertion one way or the other but not exist then?


I am claiming that anything that has not been conclusively established to be IMPOSSIBLE...is possible.

That is sorta the true definition of "possible."

If you are asserting that you have conclusively established that it is impossible...please offer your argument.

BUT...before you do...can we get some idea of where you are going with this. How does it impact on my assertions, "I do not 'believe' any gods exist...and I also do not 'believe' there are no gods?"

Just a rough idea would be fine. I'll question anything I do not understand.
Mrknowspeople
 
  -1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 12:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
God has to exist because we believe He does and because He exists, His purpose was to make us thus our purpose is to exist for Him.
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Sat 5 Nov, 2022 01:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
So you are claiming that it is possible to make an assertion one way or the other but not exist.

Umm …ok….I can accept that a biological computer brain could do that which is why I gave the 4 logic statements.

 

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