I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

Frank:
Please, read what you are writing.

...."but I do not believe there are no gods."

means you do believe there are gods.

It's not 'an absence of belief', it's a belief. It's English.

Joe(that's what you are writing)Nation

2 Replies

Someone else please explain to Joe Nation that when a person indicates a lack of belief in something...that does not necessitate a belief in its opposite.

The weak atheists here often mention that when they say, "I lack a belief in a GOD"...they are NOT saying that they HAVE a belief there is no GOD.

They are only indicating an absence of belief that there is a GOD.

Likewise, someone saying, “I do not believe there are no gods” is just indicating a lack of belief in “no gods”…NOT a belief that there are gods.

Not sure why Joe Nation cannot get that fairly simple concept, but I am though talking with him.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You can, apparently, offer no better rebuttal than "is not!' That's a little too immature for my taste Frank. Come back when you have something cogent and adult to say. This thread is based on a nonsense contention. Many, many people have been telling you that. I guess you think that you're always right, and that anyone and everyone who disagrees cannot possibly be right. You're a sad case.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

You can, apparently, offer no better rebuttal than "is not!' That's a little too immature for my taste Frank. Come back when you have something cogent and adult to say. This thread is based on a nonsense contention. Many, many people have been telling you that. I guess you think that you're always right, and that anyone and everyone who disagrees cannot possibly be right.

Getting a lecture on being mature and adult from you, Setanta, is like getting a lecture on how to stay slim from Chris Christie.

Quote:

You're a sad case.

I'd say I am heartbroken to hear that, Setanta, but you might miss the sarcasm. So instead I will say: I am not heartbroken to hear that.

********

One minor thing that has to be cleared up:

While doing some research through one of my old threads, I saw a comment I made that "I was back." Apparently I was not able to sign in for a week...maybe slightly longer. That may have been the "suspension" you mentioned and which I could not recollect, Setanta. Just wanted you to know that there was some basis for the "you were suspended" charge, although apparently I was not even notified that I would not be able to sign in.

I truly did not remember it, but apparently there was a time when I could not post for a short period of time that might be considered a suspension.

You were right.

0 Replies

There are a lot of things which it seems you don't recollect Frank. You were OK when you just stuck with the agnostic position--i don't know. But with this thread you tried to insert belief into the agnostic position. It's been a disaster for you. Maybe that's why you're reduced to the schoolyard rhetoric of yelling "is not!" You really screwed up royally this time, and can't seem to find the strength or the maturity to admit it and back down.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

There are a lot of things which it seems you don't recollect Frank. You were OK when you just stuck with the agnostic position--i don't know. But with this thread you tried to insert belief into the agnostic position. It's been a disaster for you. Maybe that's why you're reduced to the schoolyard rhetoric of yelling "is not!" You really screwed up royally this time, and can't seem to find the strength or the maturity to admit it and back down.

No disaster, Setanta...pure enjoyment. I've made my point to anyone alert enough to understand it. For some of the atheists like you...it ain't gonna happen.

No need to "back down" on my part...but some of your guys ought to consider it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am not a horse's ass, joefromchicago...and I am not an atheist.

Of course not. After all, they're spelled totally different!

But seriously, Frank, if you can't answer one of my questions, just say so. Don't jerk me around by offering puerile word games instead of answers.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Now, when you state "I do not have a belief that gods exist," how does that make you different from somebody who does not have a belief about the existence of any kind of god or higher power?

It doesn't.

Then you are, by your own definition, an atheist.

Frank Apisa wrote:

But because some pe0ple who "do not have a belief that gods exist" call themselves atheists...that does not mean that everybody who does not have a belief that gods exist is required to do so also.

That's the distinction? Atheists are people who call themselves atheists, whereas agnostics are people who call themselves agnostics? Really, I'm totally underwhelmed. If that's all there is to it, why the big ******* deal about denying you're an atheist?

Frank Apisa wrote:

One can "not have a belief that gods exist"...and be an agnostic and not an atheist.

I know, because I do not have a belief that gods exist...and I am an agnostic and I am not an atheist.

But you just said ... oh, never mind.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Are those statements equivalent?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You have made no point at all--just a big mess. Maybe it truly is a case of you being so obtuse that you can't see it.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Frank:
Please, read what you are writing.

...."but I do not believe there are no gods."

means you do believe there are gods.

It's not 'an absence of belief', it's a belief. It's English.

You're fighting a lost cause.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 4998436)
Frank Apisa wrote:
I am not a horse's ass, joefromchicago...and I am not an atheist.

Of course not. After all, they're spelled totally different!

But seriously, Frank, if you can't answer one of my questions, just say so. Don't jerk me around by offering puerile word games instead of answers.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
Now, when you state "I do not have a belief that gods exist," how does that make you different from somebody who does not have a belief about the existence of any kind of god or higher power?

It doesn't.

Then you are, by your own definition, an atheist.

Frank Apisa wrote:
But because some pe0ple who "do not have a belief that gods exist" call themselves atheists...that does not mean that everybody who does not have a belief that gods exist is required to do so also.

That's the distinction? Atheists are people who call themselves atheists, whereas agnostics are people who call themselves agnostics? Really, I'm totally underwhelmed. If that's all there is to it, why the big ******* deal about denying you're an atheist?

Frank Apisa wrote:
One can "not have a belief that gods exist"...and be an agnostic and not an atheist.

I know, because I do not have a belief that gods exist...and I am an agnostic and I am not an atheist.

But you just said ... oh, never mind.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Are those statements equivalent?

Oh, the anger! Joefromchicago...the anger! C'mon...control it. You know you can. We are all rooting for you.

Tell ya what. Call me a horse's ass again. That will perk you up.

Quote:

Then you are, by your own definition, an atheist.

Oh, my, my, my. That is hilarious!

Nope, I am not an atheist!

You must be a treasure in court!

****

Tell ya what, joefromchicago...let me tell you a lawyer joke. Supposedly real life court dialogue:

ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?

WITNESS: No.

ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?

WITNESS: No.

ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?

WITNESS: No.

ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?

WITNESS: No.

ATTORNEY Did you check for breathing?

WITNESS: No.

ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?

WITNESS: No.

ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?

WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.

ATTORNEY: But could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?

WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and
practicing law

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

You have made no point at all--just a big mess. Maybe it truly is a case of you being so obtuse that you can't see it.

I am completely correct.

I do not have a belief that there are gods.

I do not have a belief that gods do not exist.

In other words, I do not have a belief in either direction.

There is nothing contradictory or illogical about that.

I am right on the button, Setanta.

0 Replies

@Joe Nation,

Quote:

Please, read what you are writing.

...."but I do not believe there are no gods."

means you do believe there are gods.

It's not 'an absence of belief', it's a belief. It's English.

Joe(that's what you are writing)Nation

One question bud....

How then, does an atheist saying, I do not believe Gods exist, not the same exact thing, as saying I believe Gods do not exist? And a belief? And not a rejection?

0 Replies

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

You're fighting a lost cause.

Well, I am fighting you and the atheists...so I have to agree with you. I am fighting a lost cause.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

a lot of stuff that, on mature reflection, he undoubtedly will feel embarrassed to have written

I know at your age the mind tends to wander, but let's concentrate, Frank!

You didn't address this question:

joefromchicago wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Are those statements equivalent?

2 Replies

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:
a lot of stuff that, on mature reflection, he undoubtedly will feel embarrassed to have written

I know at your age the mind tends to wander, but let's concentrate, Frank!

You didn't address this question:

joefromchicago wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Are those statements equivalent?

I gotta be honest with ya, joefromchicago. You sound a bit up tight.

Lemme lay another lawyer joke on ya:

ATTORNEY: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
WITNESS: I forget.
ATTORNEY: You forget? Can you give us an example of something you forgot?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Someone explain to Joe Nation......

Yeah, someone explain how using the double negative : "But I do not believe there are no gods." does not mean "I believe there are gods." I am willing and able to listen to a cogent speaker and writer of English.

Quote:

Likewise, someone saying, “I do not believe there are no gods” is just indicating a lack of belief in “no gods”…NOT a belief that there are gods.

Except that that is wrong and any fourth grade English teacher would agree with me. It's not indicating a lack of belief in "no gods.", it is, on it's face, a statement expressing belief that are some gods. Meh.

So come on, all you double negative slingers, come on and defend the contortions of the Apisa Catechism.
Frank is through talking to me.

Joe(and yet I love the big lug. It must be our leftover Catholicism.)Nation

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

Frank: If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

Quote:
Frank: How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Quote:
JoeFromChicago: Are those statements equivalent?

Yes!

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Which brings me to my next point....

Quote:

Yeah, someone explain how using the double negative : "But I do not believe there are no gods." does not mean "I believe there are gods." I am willing and able to listen to a cogent speaker and writer of English.

There is one problem then (and I agree with you BTW)

Saying I do not believe that Gods exist...

Is a belief, and the same thing, as saying I believe, Gods do not exist...

As there is one negative, and one positive, from an atheist perspective, both ways...

Saying I do not believe (positive) that Gods exist (negative)...

I believe, (negative) Gods do not exist...(positive)

I have a rejection (negative) of belief (positive) that Gods exist (negative)

I have a rejection (Positive) of belief (negative) that God exist (negative)

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

blah blah blah

Focus, Frank. You still haven't answered this:

joefromchicago wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Are those statements equivalent?

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 4998539)
Frank Apisa wrote:
blah blah blah

Focus, Frank. You still haven't answered this:

joefromchicago wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
If that's the case, how does one express a lack of belief in Santa Claus that does not include the possibility that Santa Claus exists?

How about: I do not believe in Santa Claus…in fact, I believe that Santa Claus does not exist?

Are those statements equivalent?

ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?
WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

1 Reply

I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

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