9
   

The Folly of Intuition

 
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 08:48 am
@Setanta,
Intuition is a product of indoctrination as well. Intuition is not a default, uniform human attribute given to us at birth. All the raw materials that the brain uses to make that snap decision are provided from our environment. Rather than just say you "see no reason to take your remarks seriously" debate me instead. You've defined intuition as "the set of conclusions that we reach without a conscious process." Are you saying that racism is a conscious process?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 09:23 am
@engineer,
Quote:
Intuition is not a default


Quote:
All the raw materials that the brain uses to make that snap decision are provided from our environment.


I don't think we know enough about the brain and its functions to be that definitive. It's certainly an opinion.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 09:52 am
@ehBeth,
True. I think this is more of an opinion thread anyway. Those are typically the most fun.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 10:03 am
@engineer,
First, i object to the classification as intuition as, and only as, a snap descision. You have no more established that then you have, for example, established that racism is a product of intuition. I am debating you, which is why i said i see no reason to take your remarks seriously, bucause you have failed to establish your claims. I don't accept ipse dixit, and i doubt that you do either. Yes, i certainly am saying that racism is a conscious process, the result of one's indoctrination.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 10:27 am
@Setanta,
Max wrote:
My son has dark skin. When he walks down some streets, people get nervous. There is no reason for this as there is no real danger. My son is educated and respectful, yet when he walks past people women visibly tighten their purses and walk out of the way (he and I have tested this together where I will walk by with my white face and watch the differences in behavior).

You really think that when women see Max's son they think to themselves "Look at that Darkie over there. I guess I should tighten my hold on my bag"? I think their subconscious puts together the situation, compares it to expectations, experience and indoctrination and sends a signal to tighten that grip. Completely done without conscious intent. Intuition based on your definition. "Intuition" has a good connotation, "racism" a bad one. People don't want to conflate the two, I understand. Nor am I saying intuition is bad. Ask a sceintist for his intuition on a science problem and you're probably going to get a good answer. Ask a non-scientist, maybe not so good an answer. It depends on your background, your training, your experiences. My problem is that intuition is of very limited value in understanding complex problems outside your expertise but people will routinely "trust their gut" making them easy to deceive.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 10:36 am
@engineer,
Leaving aside the anecdotal character of Max's claim, the reaction based on race is not necessarily intuition. Although intuition is surely an unconscious (or other than conscious) process, it is not axiomatic that all other than conscious reactions are intuition. You're the one doing the conflation here. This is also not a fair response to my criticism, which is that you claimed that racism is caused by intuition, while subsequently acknowledging that racism is a product of indoctrination. I say you can't have it both ways.

That people may or may not use intuition wisely is not evidence that intuition is somehow an inferior process to conscious, so-called rational thought. The citation that Max provided points out that people make flawed based on conscious, "rational" thought because they don't consider all the data, or don't have all the data, or don't weigh it properly.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 10:46 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Leaving aside the anecdotal character of Max's claim, the reaction based on race is not necessarily intuition. Although intuition is surely an unconscious (or other than conscious) process, it is not axiomatic that all other than conscious reactions are intuition. You're the one doing the conflation here. This is also not a fair response to my criticism, which is that you claimed that racism is caused by intuition, while subsequently acknowledging that racism is a product of indoctrination. I say you can't have it both ways.

I do claim it both ways. My position is that "intuition" is not an inate sense we are born with but something that is developed based on our experiences, training and yes, indoctrination although socialization might be a better term. I am arguing that the same process that makes someone sense that "something is not right in this situation", or "this person can be trusted" is the same process at heart that says "that person is dangerous" based solely on skin color.

Quote:
That people may or may not use intuition wisely is not evidence that intuition is somehow an inferior process to conscious, so-called rational thought. The citation that Max provided points out that people make flawed based on conscious, "rational" thought because they don't consider all the data, or don't have all the data, or don't weigh it properly.

My position is that there are situations when relying on intuition is great, others when it is not. The problem is that I see many cases of the latter.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 11:59 am
Ah wonderful, more anecdotal evidence--it goes well with the ipse dixit statements.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

I saw the girl who isn't there.... - Question by boomerang
Mentally ill. - Discussion by sometime sun
Adulthood Life Questions - Question by inkluv99
Trolls represent human's basic nature - Discussion by omaniac
weird dream - Discussion by void123
Is being too strong a weakness? - Question by ur2cdanger1
Zombies Existence - Discussion by RisingToShine
How can we be sure that all religions are wrong? - Discussion by reasoning logic
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/24/2021 at 01:18:32