What is your justification for believing in the supernatural?

BTW--Wigan won 1--0 in the pouring rain. They are saved and Blackburn are doomed to a lower league costing the club millions.

To atheists they are categorically the same as gods, and ideas of explanations for existence involving gods. They are equally dismissible.

Very good response!

Wigan are saved though, and Villa's goal difference pretty much saves them. Who do you think will go down, QPR or Bolton?

Ahhh...so that is why atheists are so fixated upon them...because they are dismissible!

Unusual!

But "categorically the same" is a priorism. The conclusion is logically imperative on your own premiss.

And "existence involving gods" is not the same as gods. You have just dismissed the vast bulk of the human race and about 90% of your fellow Americans.

Ruritania and Wogga-wogga are categorically the same as America. All three are spiritual concepts with no existence in physical science.

Unicorns and FSMs are merely a cheap and infantile rhetorical trick to discredit Christianity and its moral teachings for those who have a need to do that. As such a need is not shared by about 90% of the population it cannot be a reflex action or a biological response and it therefore must be learned.

A scientist would be interested in how it is learned by 10% and not learned by 90%. Which involves psycho-social problems in both cases. Research into those require honest answers to questions.

For example--have you been involved in sexual behaviour which Christian morality disapproves of? Abortion, artificial birth control, homosexuality, adultery or sex outside sanctified marriage or masturbation.

If so then there is an obvious explanation for the a priorism.

In the case of the 90% religious there is obviously some self-sacrifice involved and in the other case self-indulgence.

Hence the a priorism is a justification for self-indulgence and if it is successful in persuading the 90% then there is either no regulation of sexual behaviour or some alternative to Christian regulation.

Which do you prefer IB?

I don't know--there are complicating factors.

QPR are 20-1 at Man. City. Bolton are 7-4 at Stoke. Stoke could climb above Norwich, Sunderland and Swansea if they win while those three lose. But all the matches are at the same time and everybody concerned will know where they stand during 90 minutes. If those three are looking winners near the end it would be in Stoke's financial interest to ease Bolton safe for both the club and the fans due to the travelling distances. Although a London fixture does have attractions for some.

I think Bolton's players will be more "up for it" than Stoke's.

The bookies are going 1-3 Bolton to be relegated and 5-2 QPR. If I had a bet, which I might, I would take the 5-2.

I think you're right. QPR have one hell of a hill to climb against City who will be going for the title, they just beat United, and QPR are nothing compared to that. I think the scoreline will be similar to Saints thrashing of Coventry, although Coventry were already doomed.

Stoke have very little to play for, they've already achieved what teams like that focus on, and that's survival. Mid table finish is nice, but secondary to survival. Bolton will be going hammer and nails for it.

My money's on Blackpool to make the p'offs against West Ham tonight. Birmingham are too shagged out.

I think I need an enigma machine to decrypt that statement.

We have league tables, and there are winners and losers. If you win, you get promoted to the next league, if you lose you get relegated to the lower leagues. If you end up in the top four of the premiership, which is the top league, then you play championship football with the top European teams. Either Bolton or QPR will be relegated on Saturday. QPR are playing Man City who will be crowned champions if they win. Bolton are playing Stoke who will end up mid table at best.

They have prize money to play for. I think it's about £800,ooo a place. Which is probably not much for the players. So the happily married men who prefer to get home from away matches and take the wife out on a social evening with their usual friends, the Christians, will prefer Bolton to stay up.

On the other hand the single guys and the not so happily married men might prefer a hedonistic evening in the promiscuous sweats of the capital, which Boris Johnson manages, and which are not hard to find for such handsome heroes of The Premier League which everybody agrees is the toughest league there is, and to arrive back in Stoke on Tuesday in time for training.

I think of those guys as working men. Sandwich board men. In uniform. The only difference between them and prostitutes is that they use a different set of muscles to entertain the punters.

And an atheist and an agnostic have no way of differentiating between the rights and wrongs of the operation of various aspects of the musculature structure of the human body without recourse to Christian principles. To condemn prostitution and praise professional sportsmen is bang-at-it, flat-out, male chauvinist misogyny of the worst stripe as any intelligent prostitute will tell you.

What possible scientific criteria could differentiate the professional use of the muscles to slake the various thirsts of the marketplace?

And politicians too. A man who will not hire out his muscles for money does roughly what I do now I am retired. Which is laze about all day watching the manifold manifestations of the world as they come to me, and not always being welcomed, performing the usual offices, and enough of a PT exercise to make me pant a little, which medical experts say is worth the suffering, with intervals of about 10 hours bed rest.

Proust could do 1,000 pages on the subject. And fm says I do run on sentences. You can tell he hasn't read Proust. A very sad omission in any intelligent person's education imo.

All of which puts atheists and agnostics in a bit of a fix. All counter-cultures end up in a fix. The rolling wave of Destiny tosses aside flavour of the month, year, decade, century, millenium or epoch hysterias like a breaker does a plastic bottle.

Or, as my old dad used often to say when watching the dramatic events taking place in faraway places on the TV--"It'll aw cum aaht int'wesh (wash).

And we Faustians are arrogant enough to believe we can stop it doing. It's in our blood by now. Buddha sat under a tree uuummming. Being swept away like a plastic bottle was all the same to him as not being.

Equally dismissible.

A
R
T

It came to pass that one day a seeker arrived at the place where the originator of Frankaspism was residing thirsting for a full explanation of his doctrine.

Seeker (possible convert): Mr Apisa can you explain to me the whole of your doctrine?

Frank (Mr Apisa): Please be seated my son and I will explain in full. I had a dream over 30 yrs ago and in that dream a figure who appeared godlike but I didn’t have enough evidence either way to say if it was a god or not, said unto to me, “Do you know if gods exist?” I answered no. Then the figure said unto me “Do you know if they don’t exist?”, I again answered no. The stranger then said there are in this world those that call themselves atheists because they do not believe there is a god, and those that call themselves theists because they believe there is a god and then again those who don’t label themselves at all because they can’t be bothered with either view. You are now superior to all of those. Go forth and show them that this is the case. I awoke and started on my mission immediately. I felt sure that one day I’d be able to communicate across the world anonymously with my superior message.

Seeker: Please give me all of your teaching and please don’t leave anything unsaid.

Frank: Here is my complete doctrine I will leave nothing out: I don’t know if gods exist and I don’t know that gods do not exist. Here endeth the doctrine of Frankaspism.

Seeker: Please can you explain why this is more beneficial than being an atheist or a theist or someone who can’t be bothered with either label?

Frank: I don’t know if gods exist and I don’t know that gods do not exist.

Seeker: Surely if I’m not a theist then although I won’t have to go to all the trouble of not blaspheming and take for example Lord Jesus as my saviour which could use up a valuable few minutes of my time each day. If I don’t believe in God then I could go to hell and not go to heaven for an eternity. In exchange for this you offer me the ability to say that I don’t know if gods exist. Is that correct?

Frank: Yes, my son. You will have those superior words to utter to others whenever you wish.

Seeker: Surely if I’m not an atheist or someone who can’t be bothered with having any view on the matter I will only have these superior sounding words to utter as much as I like; but If I’m an atheist and I’m right and there is no god I can live my life free from all the dogma of religious life and not waste any of my time on it. I can live free from fear of hell. I can make the most of this life I live free from those distractions. I’m also free from wasting my time going around saying, “I don’t know if gods exist and I don’t know that gods do not exist.” Am I wrong?

Frank: Yes, my son because you will have these superior words to utter to others when ever you wish: ‘I don’t know if gods exist and I don’t know that gods do not exist.’

Seeker: That sounds just what I’ve been looking for I’m glad I have adopted the philosophy of Frankaspism.

Frank: You’ve made a wise choice my son. Not only can you feel superior to everyone else you can also say the whole doctrine as much as you like, in fact it is encouraged. You have joined a philosophy which has doubled in size in very recent times. Go from here my son, to a chat room and start spreading the word. Remember all questions can be answered with the immortal words of our doctrine:
‘I don’t know if gods exist and I don’t know that gods do not exist.’

The characters in this story are fictional and there is no evidence that gods have been harmed or not harmed in the making of it.

Nope, do not want to feel superior to everyone else. I'll leave that to the atheists. All I want is a personal philosophy that I can live with...and the one I described is the one I consider superior to all the other's that I have considered.

I thought everyone did that.

You don't, igm? You are willing to pick as your personal philosophy one that you do not consider superior to the other possible choices.

Even stranger than that last thing!

And that makes a difference...how????

Right . . . you don't want to feel superior, but you describe your point of view as one of strength, and that of those who don't hold your point of view as weakness. You're pathetic and phony.

Set, you are back. I knew I mattered to you more than you want to acknowledge. Thanks.

I do think acknowledging what you do not know is a sign of strength...and I do think pretending to know what you do not know is a sign of weakness.

That is why I think the philosophy I have adopted is superior to the others I considered.

That seems to bother you.

Want to talk about it?

Who are you to say who is "pretending?" How do you know they are "pretending?" This is like that guess bullshit you peddle, it's all about the particular language upon which you insist. Your point of view is to assert that you are superior, and it's obviously very important to you. It's a shame that you don't have the strength to admit it. It's a shame you are gripped by such weakness.

Gosh, Set...I didn't say I know who is pretending. But if someone is pretending they know what they do not know...I think it is a sign of weakness.



I don't...and it is not necessary for me to know for my statement to make sense. Are you in a bad mood, Set, because you usually are more logical than this?



No, no...not at all. It is very clear...and when you finally get back in control of yourself, you will be able to see it is clear.



Well, obviously it is VERY IMPORTANT to you to assert that I assert I am superior...because you have done so many times. I do not think there is a single instance you can cite where I said I am superior. I adopted a philosophical position that I think is superior to other positions I considered...and that may be why you are so confused, Set.



Yeah, you ARE in a bad mood. Oh well...rest for a while and it should pass. I want to see you feeling better...I am hoping you will soon be feeling better.