What is your justification for believing in the supernatural?

@failures art,

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There is a warning about the field we are already in. You are both claiming to defy (I.e.- all that "**** you" god stuff) and abide (I.e.- if the sign said god will strike you down, you'd comply).

Blimey fa--no wonder Frank is comfy with your posts. Of course he would comply because he knows someone put that sign up whose property he respects.

He has no evidence that God didn't or did put it up, or Spades having followed God's instruction had done, but because he does not believe in God he knows it is a fellow human being who is requesting passers by to respect his property. Albeit in an unusual manner. Which makes him an atheist. And his experience has taught him that atheists are obnoxious creatures and are thought of as such by general opinion so he has designated himself an agnostic to avoid being associated with them.

He cannot associate himself with the other side because of the guilt it would entail for all the sexual behaviour he has engaged in.

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@spendius,

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He cannot associate himself with the other side because of the guilt it would entail for all the sexual behaviour he has engaged in.

Damn! Who told you about that?

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

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Here is something to consider: If an atheist says he believes there are no gods he is not the only type of atheist. There is another type who say that they are without gods i.e. the concept of gods has simply been let go of. They live there life free from that concept.

How can one be “without gods” unless the person is asserting there are no gods? Can one be “without humans” by simply stating “I am without humans” in a human society. To be "without gods" implies a denial that gods exist. That, by the way, is classical atheism.

You are wrong Frank, completely wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

This is exactly what I said and the exact opposite of your mistaken view of this branch of atheism.

Also the atheism I refer to is the 'classical atheism'. So all of what I said in my last post stands and you are completely wrong about a subject you don't seem to have any understanding of.

"The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god",... "

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@igm,

Every agnostic that believes in the possibility of a spaghetti monster should study that Wikipedia article and think really hard about it.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Every agnostic that believes in the possibility of a spaghetti monster should study that Wikipedia article and think really hard about it.

I agree.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Every agnostic that believes in the possibility of a spaghetti monster should study that Wikipedia article and think really hard about it.

I presume, rl, that you have studied the article and are an expert on its contents after having thought really hard about it.

The whole point of Ask an Expert is to save us from such trials and tribulations and rely on your conclusions in such matters.

What are they? In a nutshell will do. There's no need to get technical or anything like that.

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@spendius,

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I presume, rl, that you have studied the article and are an expert on its contents after having thought really hard about it.

No, I just thought that if someone believed in the possibility of spaghetti monsters that they might enjoy reading such a fine article.

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The whole point of Ask an Expert is to save us from such trials and tribulations and rely on your conclusions in such matters.

What are they? In a nutshell will do.

Were you not able 2 understand IGM's nutshell explanation?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Every agnostic that believes in the possibility of a spaghetti monster should study that Wikipedia article and think really hard about it.

They should read Laurie Mc Menemy's weekly column in the Echo and think really hard about that.

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@izzythepush,

I was wondering.

As children, male or female not relevant really... Didn't you watch the horror shows, that had supernatural events in it and craved for more and isn't there a large following of ID, vampire movies, witches, Harry Potter.

Seems to me there is and has always been a large media surrounding supernatural, that makes money.

Having said that, I don't justify it, I just wonder what some un-knowns actually are or were and so, as (we know) believe that there is such a thing...

Is this where I go pfttt in-case I get shirt? Smile

1 Reply

@igm,

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You are wrong Frank, completely wrong.

I don’t think so, igm. But I get a kick out of you thinking I am.

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

Okay, so some atheists think that atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. My guess is most of you are also gusessing that deities do not exist. There is a difference.

I have not suggested that there are not the former kind. Are you suggesting there are none of the latter kind?

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This is exactly what I said and the exact opposite of your mistaken view of this branch of atheism.

You are arguing against yourself. I have not denied that there are both kinds.

Quote:

Also the atheism I refer to is the 'classical atheism'. So all of what I said in my last post stands and you are completely wrong about a subject you don't seem to have any understanding of.

The classical atheism is the kind that suggests there are no gods. How could someone be without gods if gods exist? So declaring that one is without gods…IS suggesting that no gods exist.

Quote:

"The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god",... "

Actually, “without gods. But that is minor. However, to be without gods absolutely requires that there be no gods…otherwise you are WITH gods. So, the assertion that one is without gods is an assertion that there are no gods.

Jeez!

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Jeez indeed. You are making your own unfounded assertion here when you say that the majority of atheists, or "classic atheism" (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) says that there is no god. The so-called "weak atheists" simply say "I don't believe that" which is an absence of belief, not an assertion. You are desparate to assert that all atheist are making an assertion because you cling to your silly claim of moral and intellectual superiority. You're a sad case.

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@Setanta,

Hi, Set. I am glad I am back to being "worth the bother."

As I have mentioned many, many, many times--I do understand that there are atheists who claim to be atheists simply because they do not believe.

I have no problem with that.

But classical atheism (atheism throughout the ages) has been about the denial of the existence of gods. The word itself came to us from the Greek, through the French, and does mean, as igm pointed out, TO BE WITHOUT GODS.

How, pray tell, can one be without gods if there are any gods. The notion of being without gods requires there be no gods.

In any case, Set, I find it hard to accept the notion that a significant number of atheists truly are “just do not believe” types. Their comments indicate that the notion runs much, much deeper. It appears to me (I may be wrong) that most declared atheists truly “believe” there are no gods.

But thanks for commenting. Always good to hear from you.

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@Frank Apisa,

You're not worth the bother, but the subject is worth it. So when i see you peddling bullshit definitions the only purpose of which is to support your argument at the outset, to attempt to make others use your terms so that you can always "win," then i'm going to comment. It's like that "guess" bullshit you came up with recently, or your dishonest claim that you are always agnostic about everything.

It's only the militant atheists who are most likely to respond to you. The rest likely can't be bothered. I only comment because you're peddling bullshit and you're cronically dishonest. If one were to judge all christians by the loonies who come here to rant, one would think all christisans are loonies. However, it's a pretty safe bet that the majority of people here are christians, but very few ever comment in religious threads, so it wouldn't be reasonable to see them all as loonies. Your anecdotal evidence is like all anecdotal evidence--worthless.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

As I said originally, if I saw any kind of warning...I would not cross the field. And the fact that I was invited to do so after the fact would only make the warning more dire. So I still would not cross.

For the record, if the sign read, "If you cross this field, GOD will strike you dead!"...I would not cross. Not because I fear any gods...or any invisible unicorns...but because I take warnings seriously.

Ha. Come on Frank, now you're just blatantly avoiding the point.

There's a killer Unicorn in your bedroom. Are you seriously telling us that you will consider not going into your bedroom because you think there "might" really be a Unicorn in there?

Do you check your cereal every morning to make sure it hasn't magically changed into drain cleaner?

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@FOUND SOUL,

You're right pet, there is a need to look at the unexplained. That's why the ghost story is closely associated with the Victorians, because that was when a lot of things started to be explained, Darwinism etc.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

For the record, if the sign read, "If you cross this field, GOD will strike you dead!"...I would not cross. Not because I fear any gods...or any invisible unicorns...but because I take warnings seriously.

I wouldn't either. At least not before making sure that some crazy fanatic hadn't rigged the whole thing to blow or something. There are enough people in the world who think themselves the instruments of some god that it is a likely scenario...

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I wouldn't either. At least not before making sure that some crazy fanatic hadn't rigged the whole thing to blow or something. There are enough people in the world who think themselves the instruments of some god that it is a likely scenario...

You're right. It's a whole lot easier to believe that people are crazy than it is to believe that Unicorns exist.

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@rosborne979,

Belief isn't really required. There is enough evidence to support the idea that there are religious fanatics capable of almost any atrocity to state it as undeniable fact.

And unicorns do not exist, but they are real. Real fantasy creatures.

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@izzythepush,

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They should read Laurie Mc Menemy's weekly column in the Echo and think really hard about that.

Laurie Mc Menemy seems almost like a God over there where you are at. It seems that one is never to old to appreciate foot ball. In the USA even grandmothers can participate in the games.

http://widget.newsinc.com/fullplayerwvars.html?wid=2333&cid=507&spid=23620436&freewheel=90046&sitesection=dailycaller_top

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@Frank Apisa,

igm wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

"Frank Apisa" wrote:

Okay, so some atheists think that atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

So you agree I'm correct.

"Frank Apisa" wrote:

How could someone be without gods if gods exist? So declaring that one is without gods…IS suggesting that no gods exist.

It wasn't the atheists who called themselves atheists it was the theists. It was a pejorative term that theists called atheists. Now do you understand?

Quote:

"The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god",... "

"Frank Apisa" wrote:

Actually, “without gods. But that is minor.

Not according to the link above. In my opinion they are correct and you are wrong.

"Frank Apisa" wrote:

However, to be without gods absolutely requires that there be no gods…otherwise you are WITH gods. So, the assertion that one is without gods is an assertion that there are no gods.

Wrong again for the reasons I've given above. You as I've said before are completely wrong.

The 'without gods' atheists let go of the concept of god. This is possible for example:

We have all let go of the notion that the earth is flat. We don't think about it. It is a redundant concept. We are 'without the concept' of a flat earth.

Agnostics as you are who are agnostic about everything can't do this because the earth may still be flat and a god or some other supernatural event or creature may just create the illusion that the earth is not flat. You don't have enough evidence to say either way.

We atheist and theists and the rest of the world excluding agnostics just leave it to common sense and science coupled with history to lead our lives. I should join us before you go crazy.

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What is your justification for believing in the supernatural?

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