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Vietnam Veterans Website Cites Kerry's Anti-War Activities

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 12:49 pm
Jane Fonda has come out and said she never even shook his hand.

There is no relationship between the two -- and the picture was taken 2 years before she went to Vietnam.

Let's everybody also keep in mind that Fonda was exercising her rights to speak out on something she felt very strongly about.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 01:04 pm
And people are expressing their rights to despise her for it...
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 01:37 pm
I don't get it: What is inappropriate about a soldier campaigning against a war he is fighting? Especially when he was drafted, as I understand Kerry was. And what is inconsistent about that campaigning and the fact that Kerry did a good job as a soldier?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 01:46 pm
Because it's focusing on one thing instead of the whole.

Kerry was a war-hero - who protested the war

Bush had a shady history in the ANG - but led two successful invasions.

When a part of the whole is focused on, it diminishes the whole.

My 2cents anyways.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 01:55 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Because it's focusing on one thing instead of the whole.

Kerry was a war-hero - who protested the war

WHo ahd every right to do so. In fact my respect for him stems from this.

Quote:
Bush had a shady history in the ANG - but led two successful invasions.

Again, your definition of "success" is extremely flawed, bordering on ludicrous.

Quote:
When a part of the whole is focused on, it diminishes the whole.

Which seems to be the strategy Bush is counting on in reference to his own presidency!

Quote:
My 2cents anyways.

Worth much less than that, as always.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 02:12 pm
hobitbob wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Because it's focusing on one thing instead of the whole.

Kerry was a war-hero - who protested the war

WHo ahd every right to do so. In fact my respect for him stems from this.


Much like Bush had every right to join the ANG? Like Bush had every right to show off his honorable discharge?

Quote:
Quote:
Bush had a shady history in the ANG - but led two successful invasions.

Again, your definition of "success" is extremely flawed, bordering on ludicrous.


Right. Whatever.

Quote:
Quote:
When a part of the whole is focused on, it diminishes the whole.

Which seems to be the strategy Bush is counting on in reference to his own presidency!


We are electing a man to be our president for the next 4 years. We need to look at the whole man and recognize that a man is the sum of his experiences, not each experience.

Quote:
Quote:
My 2cents anyways.

Worth much less than that, as always.

Rolling Eyes
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 02:12 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Because it's focusing on one thing instead of the whole.

But focusing on the whole arguably strengthens Kerry's standing: He was against Vietnam all along. But when his country called, he heeded the call, did his duty as a soldier, and did a good job at it. Bush, by contrast, bailed out into the National Guard -- quite possibly with a little help from his father's friends. In the National Guard he did something so embarrassing that it trumps the embarrassment of hiding his military record. But once president, he has no problems sending other people into battle on ficticious evidence.

How does the whole picture make Bush look stronger than Kerry? I still don't get it.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 02:19 pm
Thomas wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Because it's focusing on one thing instead of the whole.

But focusing on the whole arguably strengthens Kerry's standing: He was against Vietnam all along. But when his country called, he heeded the call, did his duty as a soldier, and did a good job at it. Bush, by contrast, bailed out into the National Guard -- quite possibly with a little help from his father's friends. In the National Guard he did something so embarrassing that it trumps the embarrassment of hiding his military record. But once president, he has no problems sending other people into battle on ficticious evidence.

How does the whole picture make Bush look stronger than Kerry? I still don't get it.


You could look at it that way...or you can spin it around...

Kerry was too much of a dumb-ass or was so ill-connected that he couldn't get out of going to fight in a war that he opposed, making him weak on his convictions and easy to manipulate.

Meanwhile, Bush was able to keep his butt out of the fire, assuring himself a safe place while his political aspirations were just warming up. He was wise enough to know that a dead Bush can no longer serve his country. Then, once elected to be President, was able to make tough decisions and show true leadership while keeping his own convictions solid.

It's all in the spin.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 02:43 pm
I love you McGentrix!

Keep making these comparisons between Bush and Kerry and we just might get the bum out of the white house yet!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 02:51 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Kerry was too much of a dumb-ass or was so ill-connected that he couldn't get out of going to fight in a war that he opposed, making him weak on his convictions and easy to manipulate.

Meanwhile, Bush was able to keep his butt out of the fire, assuring himself a safe place while his political aspirations were just warming up. He was wise enough to know that a dead Bush can no longer serve his country. Then, once elected to be President, was able to make tough decisions and show true leadership while keeping his own convictions solid.

It's all in the spin.


You need to jump off that merry-go-round before you suffer permanent damage.

I think I will let a member of the Bush administration make the case that Bush's military suffers seriously in comparison to Kerry. With no mention whatsoever of Dubya's poor attendance or missing records.

In Secretary of State Colin Powell's autobiography, My American Journey, he says:

Quote:
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."


Now, McG, you're allowed to express your deleterious opinion of Kerry, just as those of us who dislike Bush do.

You won't be able to slide by with something as ignorant as that statement above, though.
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Heywood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 02:52 pm
If anyone has a right to protest a war, its a person who fought in it, witnessed the horrors firsthand and was injured during the process.

I have nothing but respect for Kerry. He's earned the right to feel however he damn well pleases about Vietnam.

I'm not even going to start on Bush. The only thing shot at him were paperclips. When it comes to the "serving your country" issue, Kerry owns it, hands down.

By the way, I love to listen to conservative talk radio on my way home from work. When it comes to this issue, they have almost nothing to stand on, so they just start sticking him with "Hanoi Jane" as much as possible, and rant as loud as they can.
Its hilarious and pathetic at the same time. Oh well... takes all types, I suppose.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 03:08 pm
Kerry, as a decorated War Veteran had every right to voice his opinions. I don't think he's the right guy for the job either... but any attempt to smear his legitimate War-Hero status because of his exercise of free-speech after the fact is deplorable. I credit him for having the courage to stand up for what he believed. Unlike you ABBs, I agree with Phoenix and McG that we need an aggressive foreign policy right now so I will likely vote for Bush. For the record; I am neither a Republican nor a Bush fan, but applaud his aggressive response to the events of 9/11.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 03:34 pm
Pretty much agreeing with BILL right now.

Wow! Can't wait till the election finally starts to warm up a little.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 03:42 pm
blatham wrote:
phoenix

They are yanking your chain. Don't allow it. There's NO CONNECTION between Fonda and Kerry, but there is a picture where they are sitting in the same crowd.


Just for chain yanking purposes, here's a less crowded picture

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/normal_Fonda-Kerry%20PS.jpg

this photo actually is a fake ... timber


Edit (timber): Just in case the "Chain Yanking" reference is unclear, this picture is a Photoshop manipulation ... totally fake.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 03:50 pm
Non-starter.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 03:53 pm
I agree its totally insignificant, PDiddie. Neither picture has any relevance to The World As It Is Today. Hell, there's plenty of pictures of me from that era, hangin' out with odd folks and doin' strange things. As mentioned, its just chain yankin'.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 04:04 pm
Yeah, I got a few things here I'll let someone yank:

http://cache.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/images/day3/05.jpg

Quote:
Day after day, according to the tapes and memos, Nixon aides worried that Kerry was a unique, charismatic leader who could undermine support for the war. Other veteran protesters were easier targets, with their long hair, their use of a Viet Cong flag, and in some cases, their calls for overthrowing the US government. Kerry, by contrast, was a neat, well-spoken, highly decorated veteran who seemed to be a clone of former President John F. Kennedy, right down to the military service on a patrol boat.

The White House feared him like no other protester.


Boston Globe
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 04:38 pm
Quote:
I am neither a Republican nor a Bush fan, but applaud his aggressive response to the events of 9/11.

Bill

That's an oft repeated statement. Yet it is curiously unreflective. Why not assume the likelihood that anyone who might have been holding the Presidency after 9-11 would have acted similarly? It could have been Carter, Ford, Clinton, Gore, Lieberman, you, me. There is no reason to believe that Bush is somehow unique, or more steadfast or resolute (pick your loaded terms). There is no comparison here to relate to, merely the drumbeat of the PR campaign to give Bush altitude.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 04:49 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
I am neither a Republican nor a Bush fan, but applaud his aggressive response to the events of 9/11.

Bill

That's an oft repeated statement. Yet it is curiously unreflective. Why not assume the likelihood that anyone who might have been holding the Presidency after 9-11 would have acted similarly? It could have been Carter, Ford, Clinton, Gore, Lieberman, you, me. There is no reason to believe that Bush is somehow unique, or more steadfast or resolute (pick your loaded terms). There is no comparison here to relate to, merely the drumbeat of the PR campaign to give Bush altitude.
I think you could safely delete Carter from your list of potential leaders who would have responded similarly. I agree that many would have responded in Afghanistan in the same fashion, but doubt too many would have also struck Iraq. I personally think that second attack fortified our appearance of resolve; and sent a clearer message that the giant is awake. I know we disagree on whether or not this was just; but it is part of the "aggressive response to the events of 9/11" I was referencing.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 04:54 pm
Bill

Yes, no good reason to repeat our differing opinions on Iraq.
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