Let's get this straight, the story of Moses is a myth.

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I keep seeing the story of Moses, particularly the exodus from Egypt, presented as historical fact. In truth this story is neither historical nor factual.

After hundreds of years of research by people who really wanted to prove this story true, it is completely clear that this story could not have possibly happened. There is no evidence Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. There are no records, no archaeological evidence. There is a remarkable lack of signs that any large number of people traipsed through the desert for 40 years. There is no fire remains or trash.

Now that we have the ability to study genetics, we are getting an even better picture of the history of the people now living around Israel. They simply started out as the same people with the same ancestors.

But this story, from the slavery in Egypt to the Killing of the firstborn to the parting of the Red Sea to the 40 years wandering in the desert is all just a myth.

So?

1 Reply

@vikorr,

There's always a bit of truth mixed up in every myth. I thought the parting of the Red Sea was inspired by the eruption in Santorini.

Quote:

The Minoan eruption of Thera, also referred to as the Thera eruption or Santorini eruption, was a major catastrophic volcanic eruption with a Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) of 6 or 7 and a Dense-rock equivalent (DRE) of 60 cubic kilometres (14 cu mi), which is estimated to have occurred in the mid second millennium BCE. The eruption was one of the largest volcanic events on Earth in recorded history. The eruption devastated the island of Thera (also called Santorini), including the Minoan settlement at Akrotiri, as well as communities and agricultural areas on nearby islands and on the coast of Crete.

There are no clear ancient records of the eruption; the eruption seems to have inspired certain Greek myths, may have caused turmoil in Egypt, and may be alluded to in a Chinese chronicle. Additionally, it has been speculated that the Minoan eruption and the destruction of the city at Akrotiri provided the basis for or otherwise inspired Plato's story of Atlantis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

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@mysteryman,

Quote:

How do you know its the Sahara?

This is getting ridiculous.

First Mysteryman, I have been to the Sinai peninsula. The Sinai and the Sahara are very different geologically. The Sinai doesn't look anything like that. You are of course correct there might be one place in the Sinai that happens to look like that if you hold the camera just right in the exact right spot. Then again it could be in Minnesota for all you know.

This was just a suspicion. But of course when things don't look right, there are ways to confirm your suspicions that the image or story you are being presented with is bogus. In the original discussion these methods include genetic tests, reading records from the time period or looking for the obvious signs that would be left behind by a mass migration of tens of thousands of people.

In this case the evidence this image is not the Sinai is easy to get. I did it and you can even do it yourself. Simply Right click on the image and then open the image in a new tab/window. Then look at the filename which reads (in plain English) "lonepalmsaharadesert". Then again, you could have taken a few minutes to google and read about the Sinai peninsula. Just look at the pictures of the Sinai and tell me the difference isn't clear to you in two seconds.

Of course, Mysteryman, you don't have to accept this evidence. If you want to believe this picture of the Sahara desert is actually the Sinai where tens of thousands of Jewish migrants allegedly walked across to their promised land, there isn't much I can do to change your mind.

But to any rational person looking objectively, the facts are pretty obvious.

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@maxdancona,

my sinai have really been acting up with this early warm up and increase in pollen

1 Reply

@djjd62,

Just do what moses did… and hit the rock

1 Reply

@thack45,

There's also the need to exaggerate. I imagine spending a weeked with Foofie would seem like forty years in the wilderness.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

In this case the evidence this image is not the Sinai is easy to get. I did it and you can even do it yourself. Simply Right click on the image and then open the image in a new tab/window. Then look at the filename which reads (in plain English) "lonepalmsaharadesert".

Or just hit the "quote" button.

You read the word "sahara" in the image name, and you concluded the image is of the Sahara Desert, right? And this is because you believe everything you read, right?

I posted that picture because it was the best picture of a desert I could find ... that did not have footprints all over it.

Did you seriously think I was trying to post a photo of the actual desert in question? Or that the fact that I did not would in any way detract from the point I was making?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Is there a reason this question of yours piques your interest? Can you put it in context of it being really a concern of Jews, since it then might raise the question whether non-Jews should really have adopted a Jewish story?

Sort of like the Romans needed to put a Roman name on the main Greek God, since developing a religion might not have been the forte of the Romans. Similarly, if Gentile Pagans could have developed their own monotheistic religion, you might not have had any interest in asking this question. It would have been possibly of little concern for a western world that had developed their own monotheistic faith, or at least a more modern version of paganism?

I'm hinting at, for those obtuse, that the whole Moses thing is a Jewish concern, and if the pagans had not decided to take a Jewish faith (aka, early Christianity) and adopt it, they would have had no need to adopt the Old Testament schtick too. As Jimmy Durante used to say, "Everyone wants to get into the act!"

1 Reply

@Foofie,

The same can be said about early the Hebrews. The Moses story (and others) are discussed extensively in Robert Wright's, "The Evolution of God".

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

The same can be said about early the Hebrews. The Moses story (and others) are discussed extensively in Robert Wright's, "The Evolution of God".

Except that the Hebrews morphed into the Jews that are still here, so any prior peoples, that the Hebrews plagerized, gave up their copyright of the story at the time of there extinction as a people (prior to the Jews).

However, Christians and Jews both have the same story, so perhaps, said tongue in cheek, should Jews get royalties for giving first millenia pagans "early Christianity" with all its sub-plots? If religion had copyright laws, who would be paying whom?

3 Replies

@Foofie,

That depends on if there was previous morphing as the story developed, doesn't it? That's Max's point. If the Moses story is a morph of a Baal story and the God of the Torah/Bible is a morph of El, Yahweh and Baal (not through war as depicted in the scriptures, but through the merger of God-stories as peoples merged), then those people still exist too.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Except that the Hebrews morphed into the Jews that are still here, . . .

Is there a distinction between the 2 ?
If so, what is it ?

David

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@JPB,

Where are those people?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Palestinians.

Quote:

Genetic analysis suggests that the Muslims of Palestine are descendants of Christians and Jews of the southern Levant, and that half of the Palestinian and Israeli Arab male population descend from a core population that lived there in prehistoric times.[21] From Wiki

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Quote:

I posted that picture because it was the best picture of a desert I could find ... that did not have footprints all over it.

Tico, you are totally missing the point.

You picked a picture of the Sahara desert with it's mountains of blowing sand to point out that with it's mountains of blowing sand you wouldn't be able to find footprints of people crossing the Sahara because they would be covered by mountains of blowing sand.

It was the mountain of blowing sand in the picture that was the key to your point, no? And maybe had the story been about tens of thousands of people spending 40 years in the Sahara, you might have a point (or maybe not).

Your problem is that the Sinai peninsula is not covered with mountains of blowing sand. It is quite a different place. This is how the moment I saw your picture I knew (as anyone who has been to the Sinai would) that it wasn't the Sinai peninsula.

This is a picture of the actual Sinai peninsula. As you can see the mountains of blowing sand which are at the core of your rather misinformed argument aren't a prominent feature of the Sinai peninsula.

http://www.eveandersson.com/photos/egypt/sinai-desert-13-large.jpg

Actually there are professional archaeologists who have quite a good understanding of the history of the Sinai. They know what evidence you would find if community of tens of thousands of migrants had crossed this desert, and they will tell you it isn't there.

Unless you really believe it is...

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@maxdancona,

barren rock is a tough place to find footprints as well, no...?

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@maxdancona,

Okay ... it's rocky ... still don't see any footprints.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Quote:

However, Christians and Jews both have the same story, so perhaps, said tongue in cheek, should Jews get royalties for giving first millenia pagans "early Christianity" with all its sub-plots? If religion had copyright laws, who would be paying whom?

The Pagans came first. It is clear that Jewish mythology was taken from earlier Middle Eastern religions.

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Other cultures from that period in similar environments leave plenty of "footprints". There are the remains of fire pits and the places that shelters were erected and burial places and trash and the remains of campsites.

Large groups of migrants leave marks that we can see, at least every other large migration has.

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@maxdancona,

Perhaps they're not looking in the right place.

1 Reply

Let's get this straight, the story of Moses is a myth.

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