Eye On Israel/Palestine

The state attorney has recommneded that Sharon be indicted on bribery charges. It may take up to a few months before any action is taken, but if he is actually indicted, he will likely be forced to resign.

This could be good or bad news. For example, although I am against Sharons right wing stance, if he is forced to relinquish his power, it would throw his controversial withdrawel plans into doubt.

InfraBlue it's not that I agree with the way how Zionists look at this world. With my quote 'the ultimate proof that Gentiles could not be trusted' is not that the Zionists thought there was no good Gentile in this world - of course not! What I meant was that they thought that there would always be a minority of non-Jews which would be hostile towards them - and in Germany, this minority was able to come in power. I did not say "Zionists see all Gentiles as Nazi's". Most Jewish survivors of the Holocaust were helped by Gentiles to escape the gaschambers, so that would mean Zionists would have double standards - and thats not what I said.



You are absolutely right, but in 1945, with the Holocaust, most Zionists saw the best way to protect Jews was to make one Jewish state. Else, you would always be a minority. Zionists wanted a state without anti-Semitism. There was not a single country matching that profile (in their eyes) - even in America, where Jews seemed to be very welcome, there was anti-Semitism (quota for Jews on universities, exclusion from certain high society clubs).

Before you forget, I do not agree with the way the state of Israel was created, absolutely not! But Zionists looked from a different point of view at the situation. Zionism is also a sort of Jewish nationalism, and a feature of nationalism is that a nation strives for an own state, where their shared culture, religion, language can be preserved. Even how good America was for their Jews, it would never have been good enough for a Zionist - because America was not exclusively Jewish. Because the land had to be shared with people all over the world. 99% of the American Jews thought different of the Zionists, and that's also the reason why of the 5.2 million American Jews, so far only 73,000 have emigrated to Israel.

You say absolutely right things InfraBlue, but with my posts I want to show that Zionists didn't think that way and that from their point of view, the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine was absolutely right.

I know you are trying to present the Zionist view, and that you don't necessarily subscribe to these views yourself, Rick. Thanks for being game.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is coming to the US tomorrow to present to, and gain support from, President Bush his proposal for unilateral withdrawal of some settlements in Gaza, the expansion of Israel's largest settlements in the West Bank, and a complete rejection of the Palestinian Right of Return.

The proposal, in the form of epistles, "will outline the contours of a final peace deal and state Israel's right to live along defensible borders, taking into consideration demographic realities on the ground," according to a senior official on Sharon's airliner.

The "demographic realities" is in reference to the 120 Israeli settlements entrenched in the West Bank.

"Sharon, speaking at the biggest West Bank settlement, Maale Adumim, told settlers their homes would 'continue to be built as part of Israel, for all eternity.' (Jeffrey Heller, Reuters)

On his part, Bush will declaire a position that significantly varies from the stance he took in his so called "Road Map."

He is expected to yield to Israeli demands to retain certain settlements in the West Bank, and he is expected to hedge on the Palestinian's "Right of Return," saying that, "that Palestinian refugee families that once lived in Israel should live in a future Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, rather than in the Israeli lands they continue to claim." (Steven R. Weisman, New York Times)

Rabbi Michael Lerner writing in The Nation put it more critically, "When George Bush meets with Ariel Sharon in the White House on Wednesday, each leader will be doing his best to confer legitimacy on the other's failed policies of occupation."

Bush is expected to accept Sharon's plan.

Sharon Seeks U.S. Stamp to Quit Gaza, Hold W.Bank

The Sharon-Bush Axis of Occupation

Bush May Accept a Settlement Plan

Well, all these predictions were right on the money. Sadly.

I thought it was amusing how one Palestinian put it on CNN: "Its like us getting together with Britain and deciding to give Crawford Texas to China."

Now, having said that I disagree with some of the elements Bush has endorsed, I think that Sharons withdrawel plan is the best feasible option considering the current Israeli political climate.

What I mean is, Sharon's plan is the biggest concession that is likely to get Isreali legislative approval. Anything more would be shot down before having a chance to be put into action.

I think Isreali needs to do a lot more. However, it is better to accept the current proposal for now, than to push for a more comprehensive proposal that will never realisticaly make it through legislature, no?

"The Palestinian National Authority and the PLO yesterday suffered one of their greatest political defeats in years. What has happened now is that others - Israel and the Americans, and perhaps even the Likud members - will be the ones to decide the fate of the Palestinians...

"In view of the change in the US position, the end of the process that started in Oslo has arrived."

From commentary in Ha'aretz

The rabidly ethnocentric ideological extremists continue to dictate the terms of any "peace agreement" beginning with their vengeful assassination of Yitzahk Rabin, who initiated the Oslo Accords way back in 1993, and the reneging and hedging thereof by the subsequent Israeli ministries.

How would Israeli politics have looked like if Rabin never had been murdered? I read a biography about him, and in my eyes he was the first Israeli prime minister who wanted AND was able to dismantle a big group of Jewish settlements, and realising the first steps to peace by that. Or am I giving him too much credit by this?

Apr. 16, 2004 4:01 | Updated Apr. 16, 2004 12:32
Prime Minister Sharon's plan for unilateral disengagement
By JPOST.COM STAFF


Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's aide, Government Secretary Yisrael Maimon, faxed copies of the prime minister's unilateral disengagement plan, as coordinated with US President George W. Bush, to Likud Ministers on Thursday ahead of the crucial Likud vote on May 2.

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The letter's main points were leaked to Yediot Ahronot's website Ynet on Thursday night. What follows is a direct translation of the document leaked to Ynet.

1. General Principles

Israel is committed to the peace process and is aiming to reach a negotiated agreement on the basis of two states for two peoples: the State of Israel as a Jewish state and a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people. This is in keeping with President Bush's vision for a two state solution. Israel believes that it must act to improve the current reality. Israel has come to the realization that at present there is no Palestinian partner with whom to proceed along a bilateral peace process. In this light, a unilateral plan of disengagement has been prepared with the following considerations in mind:

A. The current situation is untenable. In order to move beyond the current situation, it is incumbent on Israel to proceed along a path not reliant on Palestinian cooperation.

B. The disengagement plan will lead to an improved security reality, in the long term at least.

C. In any future final status arrangement ,there will be no Israeli settlement activity in the Gaza Strip. On the other hand, it is clear that there will be areas in Judea and Samaria that will be part of the State of Israel, and there will be civilian communities, security zones and other places in which Israel has further interest inside those areas.

D. The withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and from an area in northern Samaria (four settlements and military installations in their vicinity) will diminish the friction with the Palestinian population and has the potential to improve the living conditions of the Palestinians living there and the Palestinian economy.

E. Israel hopes that the Palestinians will succeed in taking advantage of the disengagement process in order to break out of the cycle of violence and reenter a process of dialogue.

F. The disengagement process will negate the force of the arguments regarding Israel's responsibility for the residents of the Gaza Strip.

G. The disengagement process does not detract from the existing agreements between Israel and the Palestinians. The relevant existing agreements will continue to be in effect. At the time when there is visible evidence of a readiness, ability and implementation on the Palestinian side of fighting terrorism and the implementation of reforms on the basis of the road map peace plan, it will be possible to return to the path of negotiations and dialogue.

2. Main points of the plan

A. The Gaza Strip

1. Israel will withdraw from the Gaza Strip, including all the existing Israeli settlements, and will redeploy in territory outside of the Strip. The withdrawal excludes a military presence in the area along the border area between the Gaza Strip and Egypt called 'The Philadelphia Corridor' as will be detailed later.

2. Once the process is complete, there will be no permanent land-based Israeli military or civilian presence in the Gaza Strip.

3. A fact emanating from this move will be the lack of a basis to the claim that the Gaza Strip is occupied territory.

B. Judea and Samaria

1. Israel will withdraw from an area in northern Samaria (Ganim, Kadim, Homesh and Sanur) and all permanent military installations in this area, and will redeploy outside this area.

2. Once the process is complete, there will be no permanent Israeli military or civilian presence in northern Samaria.

3. The process will allow for a continuous Palestinian territory in the area of northern Samaria.

4. Israel will improve the transportation infrastructure in Judea and Samaria with an eye to allow continuous Palestinian transportation in Judea and Samaria.

5. The process will ease Palestinian economic and commercial activity in Judea and Samaria.

C. The Security Fence

Israel will continue building the Security Fence in accordance with the decisions of the government. The route of the Security Fence will take humanitarian concerns into consideration.

3. The security reality following the withdrawal

A. The Gaza Strip

1. Israel will supervise and secure the outer envelope of the geographical land mass, will exclusively control the airspace of the Gaza Strip, and will continue to carry out military operations in the territorial waters of the Gaza Strip.

2. The Gaza Strip will be demilitarized of weapons whose existence are not in accordance with existing agreements between the two sides.

3.Israel retains the basic right to self defense, including preemptive steps and response, with the use of force, against threats emanating from this area.

B. Judea and Samaria

1. With the removal of the settlements in northern Samaria (Ganim, Kadim, Homesh and Sanur) there will be no permanent Israeli military presence in the area.

2. Israel retains the basic right to self defense, including preemptive steps and response, with the use of force, against threats emanating from this area.

3. The existing security activity will continue in the remaining areas of Judea and Samaria. However, if circumstances allow, Israel will consider reducing its activity in Palestinian cities.

4. Israel will work towards reducing the number of checkpoints in Judea and Samaria as a whole.

4. Military installations and infrastructure in the Gaza Strip and northern Samaria

These will be dismantled, except for those that Israel decides to keep for the decision of another body.

The nature of security assistance to the Palestinians

Israel agrees, following coordination, to allow security consultations, assistance and training for the Palestinian security forces, for the purposes of fighting terrorism and maintaining public order, to be given by American, British and Egyptian authorities, or other experts, in accordance with agreements reached with Israel. Israel stands firm on the principle that there will be no foreign military presence in the Gaza Strip and/ or Judea and Samaria, without coordination and without Israeli agreement.

6. The border area between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (The Philadelphia Corridor)

In the first phase, Israel will continue to maintain a military presence along the length of the border line between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (The Philadelphia Corridor). This military presence is an essential security presence. In certain areas, it may be necessary to physically enlarge the area in which military operations are conducted. In the future, Israel will consider the possibility of withdrawing from this area.

Any withdrawal from this area will be conditioned, amongst other things, on the security reality and on the level of cooperation granted by Egypt in the creation of a more trustworthy solution. If and when the conditions for a withdrawal of this area arise, Israel will be ready to consider the possibility of the establishment of a seaport and an airport in the Gaza Strip, in accordance with agreements reached with Israel.

7. Israeli settlements

Israel will aim to maintain the assets of Israeli settlements. The transfer of Israeli economic activities for use by Palestinians includes the possibility of expanding Palestinian commercial activity. Israel suggests the establishment of an international body (along the lines of the AHLC) which will be agreed upon between Israel and the United States, that will take possession of the settlements, take calculations and make assessments of their overall commercial value. Israel retains the right to ask compensation to the value of all the economic assets that remain in areas it withdraws from.

8. Infrastructure and civilian arrangements

The infrastructures of water, electricity, waste management and communications serving the Palestinians will remain in place. Israel will work towards leaving in place the similar infrastructures present in the Israeli settlements it withdraws from. As a rule, Israel will allow the continuation of the supply of water, electricity, gas and petrol to the Palestinians, in accordance with existing agreements. The existing agreements, including water and electro-magnetic fields, will remain in effect.

9. The activities of international civilian organizations

Israel sees positively the continued activities of international humanitarian organizations working towards civil development, and who are assisting the Palestinian population. Israel will coordinate with these humanitarian organizations to assist their activities.

10. General arrangements

As a rule, the general arrangements currently in place between Israel and the Palestinians will remain in effect. These arrangements include, amongst others:

A. The entrance of Palestinian laborers into Israel in accordance with existing criteria.

B. The flow of goods between the Gaza Strip, Judea and Samaria, Israel and overseas.

C. Monetary policy.

D. Taxation and customs arrangements.

E. Postal and communications arrangements.

In the long term, and in accordance with Israeli interests of increased Palestinian economic independence, Israel aspires to diminish the number of Palestinian laborers entering Israel. Israel will support the development of commercial sources in the Gaza Strip and in Palestinian areas of Judea and Samaria.

11. The Erez Industrial Zone

The Erez Industrial Zone, which exists inside the Gaza Strip, employs about 4, 000 Palestinian laborers. The continuing activity of this industrial zone is first and foremost a clear and significant Palestinian interest. Israel will consider maintaining the status quo of the industrial zone under two conditions:

A. The existence of suitable security arrangements.

B. A clear recognition by the international community that the continuing operation of the industrial zone under its present conditions will not be viewed as a continuation of Israeli control of the area.

Or, the industrial zone will be handed over to the responsibility of agreed upon Palestinian or international authorities. Israel will consider, together with Egypt, the possible of establishing a joint industrial zone on the border of the Gaza Strip, Egypt and Israel.

12. International crossings

A. The international crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt:

1. The existing arrangements at the crossing will remain in place.

2. Israel is interested in moving the crossing to a "tri-border" point, about 2 kilometers from its current location. The process will be carried out with Egyptian coordination. This will allow an increase in the hours of operation at the crossing.

B. The international crossings between Judea and Samaria and Jordan; the existing arrangements in place at the crossings will continue to be in place.

13. The Erez crossing
The Erez crossing will be moved into the territory of Israel at a timetable agreed upon separately.

14. Timetable.

The process of withdrawal is planned to end at the end of 2005. Stages of withdrawal and the detailed timetable will be brought to auspices of the United States.

15. Conclusion

Israel expects wide international support for the disengagement process. This support is crucial in order to bring the Palestinians to implement their responsibilities in the areas of fighting terrorism and carrying out reforms according to the road map peace plan. Only then can both sides return to the path of negotiations.

Apr. 14, 2004 21:59 | Updated Apr. 16, 2004 10:34
Bush's letter to Sharon
By WHITE HOUSE PRESS OFFICE


April 14, 2004

His Excellency
Ariel Sharon
Prime Minister of Israel

Dear Mr. Prime Minister:

Thank you for your letter setting out your disengagement plan.

The United States remains hopeful and determined to find a way forward toward a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. I remain committed to my June 24, 2002 vision of two states living side by side in peace and security as the
key to peace, and to the roadmap as the route to get there.

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We welcome the disengagement plan you have prepared, under which Israel would withdraw certain military installations and all settlements from Gaza, and withdraw certain military installations and settlements in the West Bank. These steps described in the plan will mark real progress toward realizing my June 24, 2002 vision, and make a real contribution towards peace.

We also understand that, in this context, Israel believes it is important to bring new
opportunities to the Negev and the Galilee.

We are hopeful that steps pursuant to this plan, consistent with my vision, will remind all states and parties of their own obligations under the roadmap.

The United States appreciates the risks such an undertaking represents. I therefore want to reassure you on several points.

First, the United States remains committed to my vision and to its implementation as described in the roadmap. The United States will do its
utmost to prevent any attempt by anyone to impose any other plan. Under the roadmap, Palestinians must undertake an immediate cessation of armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere, and all official Palestinian
institutions must end incitement against Israel.

The Palestinian leadership must act decisively against terror, including sustained, targeted, and effective operations to stop terrorism and dismantle terrorist capabilities and
infrastructure.

Palestinians must undertake a comprehensive and fundamental political reform that includes a strong parliamentary democracy and an empowered
prime minister.

Second, there will be no security for Israelis or Palestinians until they and all states, in the region and beyond, join together to fight terrorism and dismantle terrorist organizations. The United States reiterates its steadfast
commitment to Israel's security, including secure, defensible borders, and to preserve and strengthen Israel's capability to deter and defend itself, by itself, against any threat or possible combination of threats.

Third, Israel will retain its right to defend itself against terrorism, including to take actions against terrorist organizations.

The United States will lead efforts, working together with Jordan, Egypt, and others in the
international community, to build the capacity and will of Palestinian institutions to fight terrorism, dismantle terrorist organizations, and prevent the areas from which Israel has withdrawn from posing a threat that would have to be addressed by any other means.

The United States understands that after
Israel withdraws from Gaza and/or parts of the West Bank, and pending agreements on other arrangements, existing arrangements regarding control of airspace, territorial waters, and land passages of the West Bank and Gaza will continue.

The United States is strongly committed to Israel's security and well-being as a Jewish state. It seems clear that an agreed, just, fair, and realistic framework for a solution to the Palestinian refugee issue as part of any final status agreement will need to be found through the establishment of a Palestinian state, and the settling of Palestinian refugees there, rather than in Israel.

As part of a final peace settlement, Israel must have secure and recognized borders, which should emerge from negotiations between the parties in accordance with UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338. In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli populations centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949, and all previous efforts to negotiate a two-state solution have reached the same conclusion. It is realistic to expect that any final status agreement will only be achieved on the basis of mutually agreed changes that reflect these realities.

I know that, as you state in your letter, you are aware that certain responsibilities face the State of Israel. Among these, your government has
stated that the barrier being erected by Israel should be a security rather than political barrier, should be temporary rather than permanent, and therefore not prejudice any final status issues including final borders, and its route should take into account, consistent with security needs, its impact on Palestinians
not engaged in terrorist activities.

As you know, the United States supports the establishment of a Palestinian state that is viable, contiguous, sovereign, and independent, so that the Palestinian people can build their own future in accordance with my vision set forth in June 2002 and with the path set forth in the roadmap.

The United States will join with others in the international community to foster the development of democratic political institutions and new leadership committed to those institutions, the reconstruction of civic institutions, the growth of a free and prosperous economy, and the building of capable security institutions dedicated to maintaining law and order and dismantling terrorist organizations.

A peace settlement negotiated between Israelis and Palestinians would be a great boon not only to those peoples but to the peoples of the entire region.

Accordingly, the United States believes that all states in the region have special responsibilities: to support the building of the institutions of a Palestinian state; to fight terrorism, and cut off all forms of assistance to
individuals and groups engaged in terrorism; and to begin now to move toward more normal relations with the State of Israel.

These actions would be true
contributions to building peace in the region.

Mr. Prime Minister, you have described a bold and historic initiative that can make an important contribution to peace. I commend your efforts and your courageous decision which I support. As a close friend and ally, the United States intends to work closely with you to help make it a success.

Sincerely,

George W. Bush

This came in 8 minutes ago on Yahoo news.

In the last two minutes, I've learned from CNN that he has actually died.

::shakes head::

An Israeli Who's Got Everybody Outraged

So, is ethnic-cleansing the evil it is made out to be?

The head of the Hamas militant Islamic movement in Gaza, Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, has been killed in a targeted Israeli missile strike on his car.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3635755.stm

That is a no good strategy, now the violence goes ahead....

Hamas' stated mission is to fight until there are no Jews between Jordan and the sea.

Israel is going nowhere.

As much as I hate the violence, I almost wish they'd engage and not stop until this **** is decided.

This type of engagement decides nothing. One one hand you have a military that won't be defeated, on the other a steady trickle of willing militants.

To end it you need territorial resolution or the exterminantion of the source of militants (i.e. the Palestinian population).

I don't hope they "decide this" through exyerminantion or transfer of the Palestinians.

I see your point--but the alternative is the slow extermination of both of them. I was opting for the faster answer.

Neither are humane.
IMO.

IMO, territorial resolution of the conflict would be quick and easy. Ya just gotta get Israel to a fair deal and then just impose it.

I'm hoping Israel's unilateral withdrawal will be such a thing but don't expect it to be.

I still maintain that it would be relatively easy to solve if I had the power of the US to work with.

"I still maintain that it would be relatively easy to solve if I had the power of the US to work with"

Totally agree

But, with Hamas' goal--Israel will never satisfy them. They could go back to the initial borders, and still be terrorized.

Screw satisfying Hamas. Satisfy the average Palestinians and they are nothing.

Works like this:

1) Get Israel in line. This is the biggest challenge. They need to accept the fair accompli of Palestine and the end of the dream of expanding to "greater Israel".

2) Knock out the territorial details. I could do it right here for you if you want. Basically it would be based on 67ish lines.

3) Right of return becomes right of return to the new Palestinian state.

4) Israeli withdrawal of Settlements and occupation.

5) Israeli contruction of a hermetical fence. Screw trying to keep Palestinian jobs, the Palestinians need a viable state and not temporary migrant work.

6) Establish a Palestinian state.

7) Accept the full-reconciliation offers of the Arab community (Saudi proposal). Establish a timetable for full normalization.

8) Work HARD on humanitarian aid to the new Palestine. It will have some of the most god-forsaken slums and the poorest regions on earth (Gaza is already just about the most depraved region on earth).

Doing so will undermine Hamas' own social work.

The key is this:

1) Getting Israel in line.
2) Getting rid of all occupation and settlement. This kills the average Palestinian's beef. They won't suddenly love Jews but they won't be seeing Jews pointing guns at the on the way to work every day.
3) Get Israel to withdraw from their illegal expantions.
4) Declare a state, this grants self-determinantion and national pride. Two things that work against Hamas.
5) Get non-hamas social structures in (schools hospitals etc).
6) Watch hamas foiled by a hermetical fence and reduced to lobbing inconsequential mortars as their support evaporates.

I glossed over a lot of details, I've been mind-simming this for years and know exactly what roads I'd change, what settlements I'd uproot, what diplomatic language in the accords I'd use in what cases etc etc etc

It's a piece of cake. All it takes is for the US to be willing to put the pressure on Israel to simply do it.

Quit the urging and backscene pressure on Israel, bring it to bear. Isreal either works immediately toward this or aid is cut and troops deployed.

Palestine gets no chance to deal, they are going to have their hand forced anyway. The reason they won't mind is because it will end occupation and bring them self-determination.

What Hamas wants is irrelevant, the fence keeps them out till they die off.

So, you don't think Hamas gets it's strength from the people's desire to rid the land of Israelis-- but mostly the humanitarian stuff?

You don't think the Pal in the street would want to eradicate the Jews, under your plan...?

I have no idea about the Pal in the street--except when they're all there, they look pretty mad.