Can life have meaning if your dreams are unattainable?

Michael, as a male who feels exactly the same way you do about women (although I'm surely far younger and haven't suffered nearly as bad of a heartbreak) I have to say that not all women are like this. Truly, there is a social stigma in America which perpetuates macho-ist idealism in every conceivable sense. Capitalist paradigms have wormed their way into almost every nook and cranny of of our culture.

Sooner or later, a materialist mantra is bound to manifest itself egotistically within our psyches. We tend to associate the things and ideas which bind us to our 'identities' as actually being WHO WE ARE, thus we are subliminally bombarded with criticisms of our own design when something supposedly terminates an aspect of our self worth. Thus, subconsciously, the ego reacts to save itself, to cover its own insecurities and imperfections. This is a mechanism which operates on a level which is strictly illusory, a perpetuation of pusillanimous BULLSHIT. Sorry if I'm in vague city here, so let me get to the point.

In virtually any action movie we have a masculine 'hero', and said hero will almost always end up with the girl. In real life, as I'm sure you've seen, women tend to be infatuated with men who are, to put it simply, ******* dicks. I've seen it a thousand times. I've had many a female friend come to me absolutely raging over the way a guy treated her, only to find that said guy ended up in bed with her that very night. A technique politely referred to as 'the neg', which employs criticism to illicit a lurch in the female's confidence, is wildly popular and truly works. So, as you can see, from a cultural perspective woman tend to react almost instinctively to spare their ego the pain of being demeaned (I can get him to like me by letting him touch my boobs! That'll show the bastard!). It becomes a game, with a prize that exceeds even physical satisfaction. Its not about companionship or love. Its about maintaining a status, accentuating self-worth through manipulation of another person. Truly, many women seem to find this absolutely enthralling. (However, please keep in mind I am mostly talking about younger women here.)

Ok.. reverting to original intentions here. I say not all women are like this because I work in an organization which gives me the pleasure of meeting women from all around the world. I met a South American girl who absolutely loved being treated well, being complimented, talking about things that matter. We dated, and she, unfortunately, went back to her country of origin. But the nicer I was, the more sensitivity I let out, the deeper our relationship became. After only dealing with American women and being played by the same girl for YEARS (who admitted to being a lover of games, BTW), my mind was blown. Of course, I thought, perhaps it was only a specific set of traits this certain girl had, that not all international women find compliments and generosity appealing. Then a multitude of thai and phillipino women arrived, and I casually observed that the guys attempting to pick them up with over-blown confidence had zero luck, but they all responded to compliments and chivalry with positiveness.

One of the older gentlemen at my work informed me that most women of oriental backround were raised With media that pounded into their heads the idea that the harder a man tries to be kind and go out of his way the better a companion he will be.

So, Michael, please don't believe believe that things like head games and the appreciation of being treated like **** are hard-wired into all women. Truly, we are a product of cultural environment as well as strong biological evolution. Sorry if you believe this to be irrelevant, but you seem to be similar to me in many ways, and these observations I've made has helped to see things in a better light (that is, nice guys aren't ALWAYS destined to finish last). Its hard to be accepted for being real in a society that vigorously promotes the opposite.

Younger American women, having been raised to believe that they should have power over men, want to test to make sure that they do. Once this is done however they lose all respect for the man, and deservedly so. The only way to win her over is to knock her back on her heals, but as the Kama Sutra instructs the usefulness of the blows is all in the timing.

Nup, sticking to what I wrote, Jack was her true love... She "tried" to find a nice guy, you but still, Jack was always who she loved.




Exactly what I said. Ask yourself. Did, Mary have you pay for everything? Whilst you were together? If not.. Very few woman are that smart to say "I love you" to keep a man, (unless he's paying her way and that's all she wants) otherwise, Good God, I am saying she must have meant it. Just not enough love...

Actually not Hawkeye. I am not discluding that "some" women are princess and go for the money, give their body are good looking and that's all they are after. But, Michael is right.. It's not what he is after at all.. He is after a "real person" but are you suggesting a real person is not good looking? That's funny You are suggesting in that paragraph that the "best" is good looking and in that, then he better play and be cool, or throw her money.. That doesn't sound like "the best" type of woman to me.

Don't assume, it makes an azz out of you and me.. It's not that way.

Hello bulldogcoma, and welcome to the thread. It's hard to find people, especially young people, who have an understanding of this.

I have a few thoughts on some areas of your post:

A neg only works on women with low self esteem (which unfortunately, is the larger percentage of them).

Secondly, a neg does not work by itself. It is a combination push-pull technique. Show interest, and then not. Advance, and then leave a vacuum. Compliment, and then put off balance...etc. At it's height it doesn't even need to be a 'neg' but a disinterest / aversion / couldn't care less. It's a variation on the 'hard to get' game, though an uglier version.

Lastly - though it can be used to great effect (on girls with low self esteem), any girl that falls for it loses your respect, and you also respect yourself less for using it. This usually leads to (without men even being aware of it) bitterness towards women that they 'have to' resort to this to get them into bed - that they have to be someone they are not - that they have to be non-genuine even while women claim to want genuineness / being treated nice etc.

I've always found this difference between cultures fascinating, and it seems - the more complex the culture, the more 'shallow' the social / courting / relationship ideals tended to be (most noticable in the young)...and the lower the self esteem young adults had.

Maybe because you do nothing but continue to whine and repeat the same bullshit.

If you want to understand how to improve your close inter-personal relationships, stop talking about "women" and start looking at yourself.

You've gotten tons of feedback in this thread about how you come across to other people--and the consensus is you are very immature, both in terms of your thinking and your emotional reactions. Do you realize how many people in this thread have asked you your age or told you to grow up? Even Hawkeye just told you you sound like a 5 year old. How come that's not sinking in with you?

You don't learn how to drive a car by reading a book about how to drive or by talking with people about how to drive. At some point, you have to get behind the wheel, with an instructor, and actually practice driving. And you have to learn how to handle various weather and road conditions, unexpected events, and how to maneuver the car under a variety of circumstances--and all of that takes practice driving and it improves with practice. And it requires that you have a car to use.

At the moment, you're like a person who is looking for a manual on how to drive, and fantasizing about what kind of car you'd like, when you've only had one or two lessons behind the wheel, and you don't even have any car at your disposal.

Lets get real. You lack experience in dating relationships, and in other social situations as well. You have trouble even interesting women in going out with you. You are socially anxious, inhibited, and awkward, and not just with women. You have to start drinking just to be able to post in this thread. You didn't know how to act or converse with your girlfriend's parents at a Thanksgiving dinner and you remained mostly silent. That's not just "shyness"--you are 33 years old and you don't know how to handle basic social situations. Do you wonder why women might not be turned on, or interested in getting to know you better, when they meet you? To use the driving analogy, they know you don't know how to drive, you don't have a car, and if they want to go for a ride, they'll opt for a guy with a car and enough driving experience to be able to avoid a collision.

So, you need to start at square one and deal with your general social anxiety--without hiding under a hat, drinking excessively, or doing anything else to avoid confronting and reducing that social anxiety. As long as you are socially anxious, your main focus is going to be yourself, and not getting to know the other person, because you're so damned self-conscious. You've got to learn how to relax enough to be able to converse with greater ease, and to focus your interest on the other person. Again, to use the driving analogy, you're too afraid to even get into the car and that's why you can't learn how to drive it. You're too afraid to put the key in the ignition. And, instead of dealing with your own irrational fears, you're talking about cars in general, how other people have better cars than you do, how cars are dangerous, etc. You don't understand that driving lessons involve learning how to control the car, and it's that sense of control that reduces the anxiety and fear of cars. But first you have to reduce your anxiety about even getting into the car--or, in terms of our discussion in this thread, your anxiety about meeting and interacting and becoming involved with people--and I do think you need a therapist to help you do that, you obviously can't do it on your own. Someone who went 6 years without dating, needs help.

And, once you've reduced your social anxiety, so you are confident enough to relate like an adult, rather than a gawky, awkward, inhibited self-conscious adolescent, you'll be better able to interest people--including women--to want to get to know you better. And you need to date as many women as you can to simply get the social experience you need. To go back to the driving analogy, you can't just learn how to drive only one make and model of car, you need to learn how to adapt to any car you might get into. So, stop insisting that you want only a BMW, or a particular hybrid, or the latest model convertible, for your driving lessons, and be willing to get into any decent safe car so you can learn how to drive, and learn how to enjoy the experience of driving. Try to date any woman who seems nice, and has something about her that is attractive--a date is not a lifetime commitment, you'll only be spending a few hours with her, and then deciding if you want to spend another few hours with her. And, when you meet someone who does seem nice, don't beat around the bush--tell her you'd like to get together, and ask for her phone number, or ask her if she'd like to get together for dinner, or a movie, on a particular night.

Let's get this into some perspective. All you want out of a date is some pleasant company for a few hours, and the experience of getting to know someone and letting them get to know you--anything else that might happen, or grow out of that, is a bonus, so don't demand or expect too much. Count yourself lucky that you've found someone who wants to go out with you, and just enjoy the experience, because no matter how the date turns out, you're gaining the social experience you need, and you're learning how to feel comfortable in the company of the opposite sex and that's the experience that you, in particular, need. The only way you will learn anything about "women" is to actually spend more time with them. The only way you will learn about, and come to understand, the complexities of relationships, is to become involved in more of them.

And, asking that woman out for a date is a little like asking her to go for a spin in your car--so you've got to make the car/yourself look good. If the car/you looks broken down and neglected she might not want to get in it--it would be unappealing, it might seem unsafe. So, fix yourself up-- start exercising, stop drinking, get enough sleep, eat properly, get your hair styled--make yourself look good, as well as you possibly can look. You're affected by how she looks, so don't you think she's looking you over too? To go back to the car analogy, if you don't have the most expensive biggest newest shiniest car to impress her, then get the dents out of your old buggy, wash and wax it, and make it seem like a great little car to ride in--fix yourself up.

And, once inside that car, she wants some good company, not a depressed self-pitying mess whose thinking is relentlessly negative and rigid. So, start working on becoming the kind of person you can like and admire, and enjoy being with, because at the moment you don't even like yourself. Stop whining and complaining about what you don't have, and start focusing on what you do have, and what you need to develop, and start doing instead of talking. In other words, become someone who is good adult company, someone who doesn't think and act and react like a 15 year old. If you're not acting and sounding like an adult, she'll hop out of that car as soon as you stop for the first light--and you'll make up all kinds of absurd reasons for why she did that, instead of realizing the truth has to do with you, and the way you are. If you want her to hang around long enough to discover all the good things about you, you've got to bring yourself up to speed, and start thinking and reacting like a 33 year old who understands his shortcomings, how they hinder him, and actually tries to correct them.

If you just continue to whine, and repeat the same bullshit, you probably can kiss your "dream" of marriage and children goodbye--in fact, you will have thrown that dream away because you were too passive and lazy and frightened to do what you had to do to obtain it. If you want that dream, work for it, and that involves doing a lot of work on yourself, so that you can attract the kind of person who wants to share that dream with you.

The fact that you have absolutely no interest in any thread on these boards, except this one thread, which is devoted to you, also says a lot about you MichaelJ. Not that you're overly self-absorbed...

Y'know firefly...

Every time I think I might like you, you say something like this:

"The fact that you have absolutely no interest in any thread on these boards, except this one thread, which is devoted to you, also says a lot about you MichaelJ. Not that you're overly self-absorbed... "

Again you are wrong. I simply don't have time. That's why I permanently deleted my facebook account.

I get that you're smart, but you aren't psychic. You've never met me, therefore even though you may be right about some things, others you draw conclusions that you don't have enough information to.

I already spend far too much time lost inside my own head. Thinking endlessly about things. When I read these posts I spend a lot of time thinking about them. If I started posting elsewhere it would consume too much of my time.

I'm taking a least a day or two off. Won't even be looking at this thread. Not that I haven't read recent comments and been pissed off by some and agreed with others...

And you just keep singing the same old tune regardless of what anyone says to you--"it's hopeless" and "I'm helpless" are your mantras, and "women", and "society", and the evil fates, and everything else under the sun, are to blame for your difficulties and failures.
Your insight and understanding of yourself, after 27 pages, seems exactly where it was when you started this thread--you have no idea how you contribute to your inter-personal problems, and you have little motivation to deal with your emotional and personality problems in a direct, effective, active, and healthy adult, manner.

I don't think it matters whether you look at this thread again or not. I think that as long as you're convinced you're "100% right" this thread is rather pointless.
You'll just keep going around in the same circles and remain clueless about why you never get anywhere.

I think that's a good idea. If you are doing a course, how much information can you cram in, in one day? Not alot.. Yet, given some time to re-read, maybe, something will sink in.

There is no point being pissed off, over anything written here, like you said, we only know "part of you" not all.. Take the information that fits and use it.

But, there underlays my concern. You do realise, even Firefly, is actually offering advise, don't read the words, read into them.

As for my comment that she loved Jack more. You have to understand Michael, that is reality. But, one day a woman "will" turn around to you and tell you, she loves you more than any other guy she had a serious relationship with..

Do you actually, honestly know what love is?

You have listed some positives about Mary but also alot of negatives. You've let the positives outway those negatives. Yet, you sort of admit that you saw the red flags at the beginning.

When we "lose" someone, to someone else, or just lose having someone. We if, needy, will profess love, profess poor me..

Yet, if only you could see your own self worth, you'd realise she was nothing really although you loved her, there is greater love out there and she wasn't the one, now to get off you azz and find it.

Basically I agree with the things you're saying.

But Mary didn't leave MichaelJ to go back to Jack, she left the relationship for other reasons--one of which might have been that MichaelJ was becoming overly attached to her and this wasn't what she wanted or needed at that point, and she knew that the situation would wind up hurting him even more if she didn't end it sooner rather than later. Maybe her time with MichaelJ helped her to get over Jack, just as she helped him to get over his long-standing fear of involvement with a woman because his fiancée had cheated on him. The relationship might have been mutually beneficial for both of them, at least for awhile. That's the part that MichaelJ can't see--he's so consumed by hurt and anger and his own needs that he's completely overlooking what her needs might have been, and overlooking the fact that her needs might have changed over the course of their relationship.
She needed to move on, to find another relationship that was a better fit for her, and she did find that relationship and she's now engaged to that man. Neither Jack nor MichaelJ was the right man for her to remain with, although she might have had feelings for both of them. Similarly, neither his fiancée nor Mary was really the right woman for MichaelJ, although he might have had feelings for both of them. But, it's only by becoming involved in different relationships that a person can discover what they do and don't want in a relationship, and what they need in a relationship, so they know how to recognize that right person when he or she does come along.

MichaelJ's problem is how to deal with his feelings of loss, and hurt, and anger and confusion in the wake of the break-up of the relationship. And he clearly doesn't know how to handle those feelings, and that's what he should be focusing on--how to deal with his own emotions. Instead, he's ranting all over the place about "women", "society", and all sorts of other things, that are really irrelevant in terms of either helping him to understand the break-up, or to deal with the painful emotions he's experiencing. He may never fully understand why the relationship didn't work out, because he can only view it from his end, and not from hers, so the more important task for him is to work through his own emotions so he can move forward, hopefully into new relationships.

MichaelJ has particular problems dealing with loss, rejection, abandonment, betrayal--his reactions are extreme--that's one reason he didn't become involved with anyone for 6 years after he broke up with his fiancée. He has problems with trust and he'd rather forgo having, or trying to have, a relationship, rather than risk being hurt. But, since part of MichaelJ really wants to have a relationship, and one that would lead to marriage, he pays a heavy price for protecting his feelings in that way--by avoiding relationships. He's a man in conflict within himself and it's that inner conflict he needs to resolve in order to find peace within himself. Unless he is willing and able to continue to take chances, and emotional risks, by forming relationships, he'll never be able to find the one that is a good prospect for lasting happiness.

None of this has anything to do with anything that MichaelJ, or anyone else here, has said about "women" or gender differences or the dating/mating game--that's not what his problem is about. I think it's more related to things in his childhood, which would certainly include the deaths of his parents, and possibly even events in his life before that trauma. I think that MichaelJ has unresolved issues relating to trust, and abandonment, and dependency, which are uniquely his and he shouldn't try to obscure those with meaningless intellectual discussions about generic "women" because he won't find the answers or solutions there. He's got to learn why these fears are so particularly strong for him that they keep him from entering into relationships, or actively seeking them, and consequently deprive him of fulfilling his competing need to be in a relationship. That sort of complex internal conflict is the reason I think he should seek professional help--his long-term happiness may well depend on getting that internal conflict resolved, and I think he will need help to do that.

Right now, I think MichaelJ needs to decrease the hurt and pain and anger that he is feeling, and he's got to stop letting those emotions interfere with his ability to think logically and rationally. Just because this relationship didn't work out does not mean that a future relationship won't work out better, so he has to stop irrationally predicting doom and gloom for himself--this was not his only shot at happiness. And being in this relationship let him experience a passion he hadn't known before, so he discovered an important part of himself through this relationship in terms of his capacity for feeling. And being in more relationships will let him discover even more about himself and what he wants and needs in a partner. And he now knows that he wants such a relationship to be founded on a strong bond of friendship, and that should help him when choosing future partners.

Not only should the break-up of this relationship not turn MichaelJ off to future relationships, it should make him more anxious to have them, because of the things about this one that were good, and because of the needs he found fulfilled in this one. It's those positives that should make him seek to find them again, or find even new ones, in a relationship with someone else. He has to stop connecting those positives exclusively to Mary, and realize that she was merely a catalyst for awakening something within him, and another relationship, with someone new, may awaken and satisfy something within him in even better ways. Mary may be gone, but she left MichaelJ with something good--a new awareness of himself and what he can hope to find and build on in a future relationship--if he can overcome his fears about giving that a chance to happen.

It's time for MichaelJ to finish mourning the end of this relationship and just let go of Mary emotionally. Continuing to talk about her, and the relationship, in this thread are ways of trying to hold onto her emotionally, and it's counter-productive. It's over, and instead of trying to hold onto the attachment, he has to let go of it. The reality is that she's no longer in his life, and he has to stop trying to keep her in his life by re-living the relationship in his head. For one thing, he's giving her far too much power over him by keeping her in his head--and he's giving her the power to continue to hurt him even though she's no longer around. He's got to take that power back from her by simply deciding it's time to pick up the pieces and move on with his life. He's got to refocus his energy and emotions on other parts of his life, perhaps develop some interests, and just let go of the anger and hurt instead of continually feeding it. Like any grief over a loss, it will recede and diminish if he just lets it go.

MichaelJ has to tone down the melodrama in how he views his life. Things aren't "in ruins", the world has not come to an end, women are not all rotten and evil, and his desire for a relationship that includes marriage and children is not unattainable. He can either expand his options for future happiness or shrink them, depending on the attitudes he chooses to hold, and how much he allows his fears and anxieties to interfere with his choices. He seems not to appreciate the considerable amount of control he does have. When he starts to appreciate the necessity to alter his dysfunctional thinking and attitudes, because that will allow his mood to improve, and he realizes these things are fully within his control, that's when he will really start to feel better emotionally, better about himself in general, and much more hopeful about his future. Unfortunately, so far there aren't any signs that that's happening. But, for his sake, I do hope that will happen.

I can see all of that firefly.

The level I am on, he's not ready for clearly, when reading all that you wrote..

You are right. He has to deal with his emotions first, way back when he was, I think 12? And, maybe before.. then progress from there.

And, you are right, the more women he dates, enters into a relationship, the more he will "get it" and jump over the fear as well hopefully of getting hurt.

I understand when someones mind is so clouded, people refuse to see reality.. And, unfortunately one of those things is, people don't necessarily stay in your life forever.. a reason, a season or a life time... But, someone will...

I'm still thinking about everything that's been said here. This post isn't a response to any of that.

Drunk again, but with good reason. Having perhaps one of the hardest nights of my life.

I got the invite to Stacy's wedding today.

Stacy is someone who I love very much. She was the first friend I met in college, right after my sister moved away. She became like my surrogate sister. I looked out for her all through college. Got her re-enrolled in school after she got kicked out for failing her sophomore year. And she kept me anchored. Helped me feel like a real person again after losing my best friend and last remaining immediate family when my sister left.

The last time I saw Stacy was on the night of my birthday. We hadn't seen each other for a while before that because I'd disappeared for quite awhile due to my depression. I was ridiculously drunk and she called me up, last minute kind of thing. Of course because we hadn't seen each other in so long we needed to talk about the pink elephant in the room, Mary. I can't remember if I mentioned before, but Stacy grew up with Mary. Mary is going to be one of Stacy's bridesmaids at her wedding.

Stacy said that she wanted me at her wedding and that that other guy wasn't invited. She said that she missed me. This was the day before Mary got engaged.

So I texted Stacy tonight after I got the invite in the mail. I told her that I wanted to come, that I intended to come, but that it would be very hard to see Mary again for the first time since she left me and at a wedding no less. I asked two things; if I could please sit in the back of the church, and also asked if Mary's fiancee was still not invited.

Stacy responded that she didn't want "any drama" there, that Mary's fiancee is welcome to come, and that if I wanted to sit in the back, she'd rather I not attend, because she "wants me to be happy".

Missing one of my best friend's wedding isn't going to make me happy!! it's going to bother me for the rest of my life! But because Stacy was under the impression that I'm still moving, and because she knows that Mary will continue to be a part of her life long after I'm gone AND because NOW that guy is Mary's fiancee instead of just the latest guy she's banging, and Stacy wants to be a part of Mary's wedding, Stacy doesn't want me there.

I wouldn't cause any "drama". I wouldn't say a ******* word to Mary at Stacy's wedding. I'm not that "self absorbed". That day isn't about me. I love Stacy. I want her to have an amazing wedding day. I just wanted to be there to see someone I consider family off on her new life.

So if I'm not OK with being there at a WEDDING and a WEDDING reception, seeing Mary with that guy, probably dancing with him, being close to him, knowing that that whole scene is going to play out again in the future with her as the bride, then I look like the douchebag! Then I get to miss one of my best friends weddings.

So you see, Mary wins again. She always wins. No matter if I try my hardest to "let go of her emotionally", she still wins. She gets away with both using me for her own needs (I acknowledge that our relationship was beneficial to me also, but I believe Mary was on SOME level aware she was using me), and causing me to miss Stacy's wedding, which is also the last time I'd see all my friends from our social circle gathered together (I had a long talk with my sister Easter Sunday, I think I re-decided I'm moving after all).

It's just not fair. I know life isn't fair, but this is asking too much. Either I miss something I SHOULD in all rights be at or I'm forced to endure something I can't handle mentally and really shouldn't be forced to. I've had more than enough of my fair share of fiancee/wedding crapola that's already left scars all over my heart.

I told Stacy that I guess I wouldn't go then, but that I loved her very much. I told her that if me not being there is what she wants I'll comply. I told her that I'm going to miss her the most out of everyone I'm leaving behind.

She didn't respond. I'm not going to contact her anymore before I leave outside of sending her a gift for her wedding. I don't know if she even cares if she sees me again.

My heart is so broken right now. Nothing can make this right. Stacy doesn't want me in her life. I have to let go of her. I've lost another person who was so hugely important in my life. I probably won't ever see her again.

So you see, that is the result of being "willing and able to continue to take chances, and emotional risks, by forming relationships". I can't win!

Life is a joke, a sick one. Because no matter how good your intentions are, you can't stop what's going to happen from happening...

And before anyone even says anything...

I know that all I can do is let go. Leave all these people behind. That's the only thing I can do.

It doesn't make it any better knowing that. Stacy was my absolute best friend left in this town, and I have to leave her behind in such a heartbreaking, horrible way. I won't ever be able to replace what she meant to me at the time she entered my life. She was exactly what I needed. I'd probably have committed suicide long ago if I hadn't have met her when I did.

My whole life, all I've known is that any and all close relationships I have end in terrible, heartbreaking ways.

I don't understand why I was born or why I should continue this life when I'm unable to have any sort of lasting bonds with anyone.

Are you under the care of a doctor for your depression???

No.

A doctor can't bring dead people back to life, or make people care about you when they don't.

Life is horrible, it's so sick. Everyone is alone.

Everyone dies alone.

Did you know that anything you repress, has a tendency to come out when you're drunk?

That's actually only a theory of mine (never actually seen a psychologist say it is so), but I've never actually known it to be wrong.

Probably something to do with the confidence factor. Personally, I like to beat around the bush with my problems when sober, due to the fact that I'll have to face the shame of lying to myself about the root of them (this being low confidence). When I'm drunk the shame is gone and the truth comes out: I don't believe wholeheartedly in my ideas and it pisses me off (unfortunately its an ego thing).

Michael, you posed a question... "Can it have meaning"?

Yes, if you want it to.

"If your dreams are unattainable?" By who's definition.... Nothing is unattainable, if you believe.

Everything, everything in life takes work.

What do you want to do, continue drinking, sulking like a child? Or become a man and do something about it?

No, we can do nothing about those loved ones that have passed, other than remember all the good thoughts, carry that with us and become who THEY would have wanted us to be, someone to be proud of.

As for others? What you put in, is what you will get out.

You're crying over spilt milk.. Fill the glass up.