15
   

A better understanding of Antisemitism

 
 
Setanta
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 05:51 am
I suggest that i know as much about Jean Baptiste Jules Bernadotte, and very likely more than uncritical, starry-eyed lovers of monarchy. It is little wonder that someone like Folke Bernadotte, with natural talent, could excel, given the advantages which arise from being the member of a so-called "royal" family. Of couse, i made no comment on Bernadotte's descendants, i was only commenting on him.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 06:00 am
@saab,
Quote:
How easy it is to be sarcastic about something you know little or nothing about
You must learn to realize that one comes off sounding rather petulant when one is all torqued off about some dead king or president, Unless , of course, he was your direct relative.
You will enjoy the A2K experience much more and you, like I, will learn more by reading what others have to say (PS, others who, Ive learned to count on for accurate information about history ).

What was what set said that was inaccurate?, you should address that rather than me for some minor quote (The substance of which was first uttered during the Nixon years about a judge being considered for a high post in the US judiciary).

Sarcasm and satire are high arts in my world. Yours seems a bit dour no? Ive aways made fun od Germans humor chalenged conditions. Ill have to revise that
saab
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 06:03 am
@Setanta,
Who is this person who is an uncritical, starry-eyed lovers of monarchy.?
I have not noticed any one here who has expressed him/herself as a starry-eyes lover of monarchy.

0 Replies
 
saab
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 06:08 am
@farmerman,
I came with was going to be meant as a light hearted remark to izzythepush and right away set starts being sarcastic and according to what I have learned in school and what is in my history books something absolutely wrong. Bernadotte was I have learned a good soldier and a decent person.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 06:10 am
Whether or not Bernadotte was a good soldier is a matter for genuine debate. I was not sarcastic about Bernadotte, i openly ridiculed him. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the fuckin' kitchen. I'm tired of your whining.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 11:24 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

It's pathetic how you always trot out some brainless bigotry about the Irish whenever you address me. I'd think by now you'd have realized that i don't rise to your bait.



I was not referring to the "Irish" (Setanta's reference), but to those middle and upper-middle class Catholic New Yorkers that do not represent the Irish today, as perhaps they once did. In my opinion, to set my thoughts straight, Catholics in NYC are aware of their being top dog, so to speak, in the goings on of NYC, and do not always show that humility that Jesus was famous for.

I do not know why you think my reference to Catholic New York laity refers to the Irish, since they left en masse sometime in the early 1960's. Naturally, there are Irish in the five boroughs, and the Irish Echo is still sold in many a candy store, but they are not the dominant Catholic demographic they once were. In my observations, over the last few decades, Catholics in NYC today span many ethnicities. I think my perceptions reflect the fact that I perceive one's religion as a private affair with one's supposed maker. Catholicism, in my opinion, is also a well managed world-wide organization, and I guess that degree of organization, and top down management style (aka, hierarchy) could be alienating for those that are outside its (in my opinion) chummy ways (no different, in my opinion, for Orthodox Jews not relating to secular Jews or visa versa).

Have you read Moynihan's sociology text, Beyond the Melting Pot, (he was a professor of sociology at City College, prior to his political career), where each chapter references the story of one of New York's ethnic demographics? Fun reading, I thought. So, it is not necessarily any supposed prejudice that you hear from me relating to the Irish, but an Irish intellectual that has critiqued his own demographic.

Also, one should note the title of this thread, yet there seems to be a disinclination to hear the opinion of one authentic Jew, even though I am secular. Perhaps, my supposed obnoxia could give one a hint as to "a better understanding to anti-Semitism"? But, then again, what would a secular Jew know about anti-Semitism.

What I should also add, is that the willingness for Gentiles today to discuss "anti-Semitism," is, in my opinion, an unconscious red-herring, since most folks today equate anti-Semitism with Nazis, or other race oriented philosophies. That means the people that find Jews different, or just not their kind, can relax and feel they are not anti-Semites. Wrong. They are, since the definition of anti-Semitism really is the belief that Jews are "inherently" different. So many folks believe that, and are oblivious to how deep prejudices run. Possibly because so many folks want to cling to the belief that they, in their identity, are somehow different. Not superior, but different, in a positive, nostalgic, sort of way.
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 02:22 pm
@saab,
Not only Count Folke, but Raul Wallenberg is a true hero as are all the Swedes that saved Danish Jews in the early 40's.
I have a very good friend who's Jewish mother was spirited to Helsingborg in the middle of the night where she waited out the rest of the war.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 11:51 pm
@panzade,
I gave you a thumb up twice and twice it was removed.
Hopefully the third time will be the last time.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 11:56 pm
@izzythepush,
My greataunt also told me a story about Napoleon.
Her grandfather got dement in old age. He believed that either Napoleon or H.C.Andersen came visiting.
So when my greataunt - as a little girl -came up to his room, sat down in his easychair he would ask her, if she had ask Napoleon if she was allowed to sit on his lap.
Later in life the two of us - greataunt and I - when there was a stupid question one could not really answer we would say "Ask Napoleon".
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 01:30 am
@saab,
I think it's important to pass these things down the line, it almost becomes part of the kid's heritage.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 01:31 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I was not referring to the "Irish" (Setanta's reference), but to those middle and upper-middle class Catholic New Yorkers that do not represent the Irish today, as perhaps they once did.


That's true, no Irish person would drink green beer. What's that about?
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:18 am
Just to clear up some of the bullshit accumulating here: What the hell does Wallenberg have to do with anything? I know of no one here who was belittling Sweden or the Swedish people. J. B. J. Bernadotte was French, not Swedish.

Foofie did indeed make one of his typical snotty, bigoted remarks about the Irish in Belfast on "Orange day," whatever the hell that's supposed to be. He never misses a chance to get a dig in, although he rather botched that attempt. I suggest he look up the 12th of July and the battle of the Boyne so that he can refine his racist slur next time.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:21 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:
I was not referring to the "Irish" (Setanta's reference), but to those middle and upper-middle class Catholic New Yorkers that do not represent the Irish today, as perhaps they once did.


That's true, no Irish person would drink green beer. What's that about?


I would not know. I drink tea, coffee, and an occasional diet soda.

Manhattan, on the day of the St. Patrick's Day parade has a huge population of Irish-Americans, and some of those that are their neighbors, come into "the city" (Manhattan) for the parade and the other festivities (after parade nourishment). For one day it looks like, to an old time New Yorker, like back to the future, since in the 1950's one-third of NYC was Irish, or Irish-American. Then they go back to their suburbs, and NYC again becomes a diverse city.



0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:45 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Just to clear up some of the bullshit accumulating here: What the hell does Wallenberg have to do with anything? I know of no one here who was belittling Sweden or the Swedish people. J. B. J. Bernadotte was French, not Swedish.

Foofie did indeed make one of his typical snotty, bigoted remarks about the Irish in Belfast on "Orange day," whatever the hell that's supposed to be. He never misses a chance to get a dig in, although he rather botched that attempt. I suggest he look up the 12th of July and the battle of the Boyne so that he can refine his racist slur next time.


No. My "snotty, bigotted remark" was just my analogy of the Protestant Orangemen's "chin out" prideful manner, at their Orange Day parade, to my perception of some of the less than humble attitude I have enountered from some middle and upper-middle class NYC Catholics. Not Irish! Catholics.

Reiterating, NYC Catholics are aware that they are top dog in the goings on of NYC, and they do not always show the humility of the religion they subscribe to. Nothing against Irish. Call me bigoted against Catholicism, but that reflects my own study of Jewish history, past and present, and how Catholicism may have been the original authors of many an anti-Semitic canard. While after John XXIII there has been an attempt to remedy that history, I find it not really successful at the grass roots level, here in NYC. Alienation is alive and healthy towards Jews, religious and secular, amongst a good many people of "Catholic background." This is my observation that forms my opinion. And, since thologically, Catholicism does not need Jews to exist for their theology to be complete, I have to ask myself if Evangelical Protestantism is a more authentic friend to Judaism, since bible prophecy needs Jews to exist for it to come to fruition (aka, the Second Coming). So, whether my connecting Replacement Theology with ongoing Judeophobia is correct to any degree, or not, I feel that Protestants usually have a different attitude to American Jews than many a Catholic. In other words, Catholicism, from my perspective, is so autonomous, that I have to question whether it can be a true friend to other religions, regardless of its being followers of Jesus? I'll answer my own question (it must have been rhetorical?). Protestants had this huge country all to themselves. They let us non-Protestant ethnics in to work at the assembly lines, and basically raise themselves to a managerial class. In effect, they knew there were not enough Protestants to make this huge country effective. That took immigrants that were different. However, Catholics come from countries that are usually only Catholic. In my opinion, they can "see" a country being just Catholic. And Jews being that much different as non-Christians, makes them just sort of interlopers that here they may have to just begrudgingly accept.

So, if one doesn't like my thinking. Tough noogies. It reflects about 130 years of observations, and some education beyond what my grandparents had.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:16 pm
I like this old back woods boy's philosophy of this matter what do you think?
He makes many other videos and some of them you may find bazare.
0 Replies
 
 

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