Trapped in the Friend Zone...I think.

Are you suggesting I be more sexually assertive? Aggressive?



I'm fairly sure I want a romantic relationship with intimacy. I've never had that before. In the past, it didn't bother me as much being alone. It's affecting me more and more as I near 30. I ultimately just want a family and someone with whom I can share my life. The woman doesn't have to be a trophy. As long as she's into me, or at least willing to go through the motions convincingly, I'd probably be satisfied.

I have already said that you should leave women alone until and unless you figure out who you are and what you want. Right now I hear a lot of MEH.

I don't know what you mean. Perhaps if I see an example I'll understand better. What do you want?

Didn't you say earlier that you go out to a bar three times a week?

I understand if a person comes on too strong, the other backs away... For the most part we all like a chase.

But, also your obssession is about not winning... It' become a challenge.

Being 30 and not married, is a good reason to start dating, getting to know women, their emotions, how they tick and what you like and don't like about women so you know what you are totally looking for in a woman and so you can get married.

Being 29 and not having sex for huge periods of time, no intimacy with a woman as a partner, a relationship ever, will keep you alone into your 40's.

Hawkeye said, "what do you want" you seem to know what you "need" and have a fear of your age.

The above is an example of finding out exactly what you want in a woman.. but also you need to find out who you are... and what you want full stop .

No, no, no! He didn't ask what you would be willing to settle for...he asked what you really want!

This is the essence of your problem. You're settling. Do that, and you'll never get what you really want and need.

Almost......the main problem seems to be that it is impssible to have a relationship with Jello, which what this guy is. He wants a relationship on some level but he is not ready, and any woman with a lick of sense knows that he would be useless in his current condition, very likely to include this third rate girl who once gave him a lousy BJ.

Yes, more of a pub than a club. There's no dancing or waving those neon light sticks around in the dark. Even so, I'd estimate about a third of the patrons are female.



I'm not looking to be chased. I don't trust her intentions. Like Hawkeye said, who is going to be attracted to jello? Why would this woman want me without even really knowing me? She nervously sees herself getting older and wants someone to take care of her and her daughter. She flat out told me the former. If women sense my emotional insecurity, then wouldn't it follow that I attract those who are vulnerable themselves? Those are the kinds of women I've always gotten for sex.



I still don't know what "find out who you are" means. Are you asking about my interests? My ambitions? The type of lifestyle I desire?

I understand the point about need versus want. I suppose it's difficult to discern what I want without meaningfully knowing the choices. It's a bit like asking someone to select his favorite Mark Twain book when he's never read Mark Twain. I've always thought I wanted a black and white movies wife: feminine and sassy.

After all these posts, I am thinking of you as a fixer, essentially shutting off to all that you do not get, but pretty observant re what you do get. I hope you don't wound people along the way on purpose, and I don't think it is on purpose, but you are missing the gauge for that.

At this point, with this woman, I think of you as predator. Back the **** off.

Oooh Osso swore:)

So, why do you go to a "pub: three times a week?

Tell me one man that does? A woman likes to be chased, a man likes to chase. Have you ever thought of asking her? Maybe she found you attractive, fantasizes about you, isn't lust the first step, chemistry? Don't you get to know someone the more you date them? Haven't you been on a date with her?

Most people "settle"... This is what you are referring to... She wants someone in her life, someone in her childs life, don't discard that she may have found you attractive, it's not always about financial security... Having said that, she is way too eager, jumping the gun ready to meet family but often, that is a lonely person who fell immediately into lust and then starts seeing ahead before it's even begun... It doesn't mean she is/was a gold-digger.



Isn't that a preditor? Didn't Osso say that? You prey on the weak when you desire sex.



That is not finding out who you are... That is, you telling what your interests are..

I understand the point about need versus want. I suppose it's difficult to discern what I want without meaningfully knowing the choices. It's a bit like asking someone to select his favorite Mark Twain book when he's never read Mark Twain. I've always thought I wanted a black and white movies wife: feminine and sassy.

There is no comparison. Feminine, sassy is outward traits..

What are the inner traits, her values, morals, core beliefs, persona.

To socialize. Until age 27, I mostly kept to myself, with few exceptions. I had a couple male friends from high school with whom I'd attend the occasional ballgame or lunch outing. Otherwise I did nothing. Even with relatives, I had a tendency to be timid. Days would pass where the only time I'd hear myself talk is to my parents over the phone, or to utter superficial two word pleasantries to a cashier. My social life revolved around the girl I've been discussing and my online conversations with her.

Eventually that was no longer enough for me. I forced myself to integrate into real world society and slowly found that it wasn't as daunting as I anticipated. I made several friends quickly and now feel quite comfortable commiserating with familiar faces. Launching into romantic entanglements remains a significant barrier. I have no idea how to do it.



I'm not too keen on her. Maybe I should give her more of an opportunity. I find her physically attractive, I just don't share the same visceral desire to be with her that I do with the girl 2,500+ miles away.

Part of me is afraid of failure. I don't see why an experienced veteran of many relationships would be interested in a novice. I fear that I would embarrass myself with anyone who knows what to expect.

I know almost everything there is to know about the girl I'm obsessed with, which engenders a degree of comfort because I know that building a relationship would be a first for her too. I can't fool a veteran the way I can bamboozle a rookie. It's not that I want to trick anyone; I just think I have to in order to make any progress. If I'm honest about my romantic inexperience, potential mates will view me as a loser. I was once rejected by a girl a long time ago (when it would have been more acceptable to be a novice) because she didn't want to "potty train" me (her words).



I rarely do the preying. Insecure women prey upon me and I accept it because otherwise I would never have sex. I hardly approach anyone for anything, the lone exception being the girl I'm obsessed with because my history with her breeds comfort and I am moderately confident in my ability to manipulate her. If I push strenuously (verbally, not physically), I think I could get a lot from her. I am opting not to go that route because I would rather she choose me than resentfully acquiesce to my desires under a combination of pressure, guilt, and desperation. I realize I'm not going to experience the intimacy I crave unless the other person genuinely consents to it.



Fidelity and commitment to family matter a lot to me. I also want someone who exhibits an appreciation for cultural, ethnic, linguistic, nationalistic, and racial diversity. I abhor bigotry. Other than that, I actually prefer an opinionated person to one with no core, even if I don't share the same perspectives.

That is a shocker right there.....

Aren't you meant to marry someone who is from the same "culture?"...

I think you need to hook up with a person who is into museums, science someone on your level of thinking even if they study different subjects.

And, manipulating anyone is not a good thing.

Lastly, 27 and on your own I'm glad you got out more now but I am tending to think that you are mixing with the wrong people and at the wrong places.

Not necessarily. I'm open to women of all cultural backgrounds. But what I meant is that even if I marry someone from my same culture, I'd want her to respect all others. Nothing turns me off faster than bigoted elitists.



I might like that, I'm not sure. I tend to get along better with vapid females, in part because my knowledge and profession seem more impressive to them than they would to a similarly situated person, and also because I don't have to worry about exposing myself as intellectually weak in something. (I'm particularly vulnerable in the sciences). It takes more effort to impress a smart person than an ignorant or dumb one. I'd have to be on top of my game at all times. I'm not necessarily opposed to it. It's just not something I've experienced. I don't like feeling as though I'm on an admissions interview.



I've been living alone since I was 19. I didn't start going out regularly until 27. I don't think I'm associating with the wrong people. You read the word "pub" and probably visualize some brash saloon with tattoed monosyllabic blue collar beer guzzlers. It's not that kind of place at all. It's a family restaurant with a bar section that attracts a diverse group of people, ranging from kids to senior citizens. There's a good mix of people there and I go not to find a wife but just to relax and commiserate with people from all walks of life. It's been good for my social development to shift from the virtual world to the real world.

By the way, I haven't exchanged communications of any kind with my "prey" since commencing this thread. I haven't contacted her even once, nor has she contacted me. Some of that might be due to her beginning a new semester and dealing with the memorial and funeral services for her father (the latter of which transpires tomorrow morning, as I recall). Whatever the reason, I'm not reaching out to her. I'm keeping my distance. I'm effing off as someone so eloquently put it.

Dude,

You seem like a good guy. You deserve someone better. Find someone else who knows how lucky she is to have you in her life. And that girl? She's not worth it. To put it quite bluntly, she's a bitch. (no offense meant. i mean, i don't know how to describe her).

Trust me, I'm a girl.