18
   

War! The fear mongering is here, again!

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 06:01 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
But of course, you're OK with damage to innocent Persians . . . oh wait, they're Muslims, so none of them are innocent, right? They all deserve to die horrible deaths, right?

What an asshole.


Well, the fact that Israel are close friends with us, and the fact that there wouldn't be all this trouble if Iran were not causing it, mean I don't quite view them as equals. But I don't wish any particular ills to Iranian civilians.

If Iran's nuclear program is bombed, it might get ugly for some of those civilians. Many tons of hydrofluoric acid vapor will likely be released into the atmosphere when the Uranium Conversion Facility at Isfahan is destroyed, and that is a lethal poison that is absorbed directly through the skin (in addition to all the traits that would be be expected of any kind of strong acid in vapor form).

If the bombing does take place, I advise anyone downwind from that plant to run for their lives and don't look back.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 06:07 am
@oralloy,
No, Israel is a political and military parasite. They're not our friends, they do nothing to help us, and their unchecked, self-serving militarism hurts us.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 06:18 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
What an asshole.


An arsehole has a useful function. Don't slander arseholes.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:33 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
But of course, you're OK with damage to innocent Persians . . . oh wait, they're Muslims,
so none of them are innocent, right? They all deserve to die horrible deaths, right?

What an asshole.
FOR THE RECORD:
I don' t give a damn about the Persians.
I only care about the Americans, who in fairness,
owe a debt of gratitude to Israel for taking out Saddam's nuclear
production facility in 1981. As a citizen of an American sea port,
I hope to see that thay will replicate that feat qua Iran, in the very near future.





David
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:46 am
Ollory and sig sure know how post so called facts that if researched dont pan out but Sentana posted the right and true facts.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:59 am
There's parliamentary elections in Iran on Friday. this time there's no real opposition figure unlike the last time they were held. Any real reformers have been weeded out by the supreme leader.

What's now emerging is a power struggle inside the Conservative regime between the supporters of Ahmadinejad and Khamenei. Khamenei is the supreme leader, and is a lot more hardline than Ahmadinejad who is more of a pragmatist.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/29/world/meast/iran-parliamentary-elections/index.html
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:36 pm
@izzythepush,
When we , the U.S., destroyed democracy in Iran we created a religious government and we are now paying the price of playing God. Why dont we just back off and let the two religious oriented governments, Iran and Israel, fight it out.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:42 pm
@RABEL222,
You're preaching to the choir mate. I'm a member of the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign. I don't buy Israeli produce, and go out of my way to buy fair trade Palestinian olive oil, which is about the only Palestinian produce you can get hold of.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:37 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
No, Israel is a political and military parasite. They're not our friends, they do nothing to help us, and their unchecked, self-serving militarism hurts us.


I disagree. I am proud to call myself a friend of Israel.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:38 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Ollory and sig sure know how post so called facts that if researched dont pan out


Those are some pretty big words for someone who hasn't managed to show a single fact that I have wrong.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:41 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
When we , the U.S., destroyed democracy in Iran we created a religious government and we are now paying the price of playing God.


Nonsense. It was hardly a case of the US sweeping in from nowhere and imposing the Shah on hapless Iranians from out of the blue.

I'm not saying we didn't go along with the coup and even help with it. We did.

But the coup had plenty of support among the same Iranian religious clerics who then later overthrew the Shah. And even among foreigners, the UK was more involved than the US was.



RABEL222 wrote:
Why dont we just back off and let the two religious oriented governments, Iran and Israel, fight it out.


Does "backing off" mean not intervening if Israel gets the upper hand and starts crushing Iran? Or would there then suddenly be a reason to get involved and save Iran from Israel?


In any case, there are two reasons why we don't back off:

The first is that the US will never tolerate Iran having nuclear weapons, and that policy has nothing to do with Israel.

The second is that Israel is our friend and ally, and we help our friends and allies.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:48 pm
@oralloy,
I'm sure you are, it's part and parcel of your reactionary, partisan stance. It's not based on truth, however. Israel is not a friend or yours. The Zionists don't care if you live or die. They have only ever sought their own interests, not those of the United States. Quite apart from that, supporting the zionist regimes of Israel is not in the interest of the United States.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:58 pm
@oralloy,
MI6 certainly went whining to Central Intelligence to get their support for a coup. Then they blind-sided the newly elected Eishenhower with it. They didn't pull that **** on Ike, twice, however. Kennedy got blind-sided with the Bay of Pigs because the pukes at Central Intelligence never tried to take it to Ike, they knew he wouldn't go along.

I defy you to provide unambiguous, reliable evidence that Muslim clerics in Iran went along with the overthrow of Mossedegh. Don't bother posting anything with zionist finger prints on it. The Persians hate the Israelis because Mossad went in there and set up SAVAK for the Shah. When relations between the U.S. and the Shah began to go sour, Mossad went in to provide operational support for SAVAK, and even conduted kidnapping and tortue operations for them. The clerics who spew the anti-Israeli hatred in Iran today were the victims of, or their families and associates were the victims of Mossad-SAVAK operations.

Quote:
Prior to the Iranian Revolution of 1978–79, SAVAK (Organization of National Security and Information), the Iranian secret police and intelligence service was created under the guidance of United States and Israeli intelligence officers in 1957. After security relations between the United States and Iran grew more distant in the early 1960s which led the CIA training team to leave Iran, Mossad became increasingly active in Iran, "training SAVAK personnel and carrying out a broad variety of joint operations with SAVAK."

The Mossad discovered Iran's covert nuclear program before it officially became known, and conducted espionage operations against nuclear facilities in the country.[citation needed]

A US intelligence official told The Washington Post that Israel orchestrated the defection of Iranian general Ali Reza Askari on February 7, 2007. This has been denied by Israeli spokesman Mark Regev. The Sunday Times reported that Askari had been a Mossad asset since 2003, and left only when his cover was about to be blown.

Le Figaro claimed that the Mossad was possibly behind a blast at the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's Imam Ali military base, on 12 October 2010. The explosion at the base killed 18 and injured 10 others. Among the dead was also general Hassan Tehrani Moghaddam, who served as the commander of the Revolutionary Guards’ missile program and was a crucial figure in building Iran’s long-range missile program.[44] The base is believed to store long-range missiles, including the Shahab-3, and also has hangars. It is one of Iran's most secure military bases.

Iranian Intelligence Minister Heydar Moslehi has accused Mossad of assassination plots and killings of Iranian Physicists in 2010. Reports have noted that such information has not yet been evidently proven. Iranian state TV broadcast a stated confession from Majid Jamali-Fash, an Iranian man who claimed to have visited Israel to be trained by the Mossad.

The Mossad has been accused of assassinating Masoud Alimohammadi, Ardeshir Hosseinpour, Majid Shahriari, Darioush Rezaeinejad and Ahmadi-Roshan; scientists involved in the Iranian nuclear program. It is also suspected of being behind the attempted assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist Fereydoon Abbasi.


Source at Wikipedia with citations

You, as always, just make **** up when you don't have any other argument. Your next predictable response will simplybe to repeatedly say "nope."
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:03 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I defy you to provide unambiguous, reliable evidence that Muslim clerics in Iran went along with the overthrow of Mossedegh. Don't bother posting anything with zionist finger prints on it.


"Reliable" is in the eye of the beholder. And I've no idea what may or may not be connected to Zionism. But:

Quote:
It was the clerical establishment’s animosity towards Mossadegh that laid the groundwork for his ouster. A broad swath of clerics--Islamists like Ayatollah Abolgasem Kashani, a mentor of the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini--had initially supported Mossadegh. But, by late 1952, the clerics turned against him after he bucked their demands. The Ayatollah Kashani unsuccessfully pressed Mossadegh for the right to appoint key ministers. Another top cleric called on the prime minister to purge the civil service of Baha’is--a bane of Shia clergy. The clergy’s allegiance to Mossadegh weakened further as he allowed the communist Tudeh Party to gain ever more power, despite his own personal abhorrence of communism. Once Mossadegh squandered the allegiance of the clergy, the inevitability of his fate became increasingly clear. (He had also alienated the middle class, increasingly weary of ideological warfare; and the army had pleaded for his ouster.)"

From page 2 of this article:
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-great-satan-myth

National Public Radio interview with the author about that article:
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121954311




Setanta wrote:
The Persians hate the Israelis because Mossad went in there and set up SAVAK for the Shah. When relations between the U.S. and the Shah began to go sour, Mossad went in to provide operational support for SAVAK, and even conduted kidnapping and tortue operations for them. The clerics who spew the anti-Israeli hatred in Iran today were the victims of, or their families and associates were the victims of Mossad-SAVAK operations.


I'm not too familiar with SAVAK, but I'm sure you're right.



Setanta wrote:
You, as always, just make **** up when you don't have any other argument.


You will not be able to provide any cites of me making anything up (there are none to provide).



Setanta wrote:
Your next predictable response will simplybe to repeatedly say "nope."


Sometimes it is the right answer.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:21 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Israel is not a friend or yours.


Well then flip it around. I am a friend of theirs. I wish them nothing but the best, and am happy to support them in all their endeavors.

I do wish Israel would finally lose their patience and just annex everything west of "the wall" though. That would place a majority of the settlers in Israeli territory, would cement Israel's control over Greater Jerusalem, and in conjunction with Israel's continued military control over the Jordan River Valley, would split the Palestinian West Bank into northern and southern halves. It would be perfect.

But unfortunately it seems a bit too radical for Netanyahu to want to do.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:55 am
@oralloy,
All Ive got to say too you in response to Israel being our friend is remember the USS Liberty.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 02:39 am
@RABEL222,
The USS Liberty was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Israel didn't want any witnesses of its war crimes.

Quote:
Three days after Israel had launched the six- day war, Egyptian prisoners in the Sinai had become a nuisance. There was no place to house them, not enough Israelis to watch them, and few vehicles to transport them to prison camps. But there was another way to deal with them.

As the Liberty sat within eyeshot of El Arish, eavesdropping on surrounding communications, Israeli soldiers turned the town into a slaughterhouse, systematically butchering their prisoners. An eyewitness recounted how in the shadow of the El Arish mosque, they lined up about 60 unarmed Egyptian prisoners, hands tied behind their backs, and then opened fire with machine guns until the pale desert sand turned red.

This and other war crimes were just some of the secrets Israel had sought to conceal since the start of the conflict. An essential element in the Israeli battle plan seemed to have been to hide much of the war behind a carefully constructed curtain of lies: lies about the Egyptian threat, lies about who started the war, lies to the US president, lies to the UN Security Council, lies to the press, lies to the public. Thus, as the American naval historian Dr Richard K Smith noted, "any instrument which sought to penetrate this smoke screen so carefully thrown around the normal 'fog of war' would have to be frustrated".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/aug/08/israel
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 02:44 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

All Ive got to say too you in response to Israel being our friend is remember the USS Liberty.

Over here we remember the British Sergeants Martin and Paice, kidnapped, tortured and murdered by Israeli terrorists.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 03:01 am
@oralloy,
You're "nope" is never the right answer, it is always a denial of anything which contradicts your ideology. You place reactionary ideology over truth, and do so habitually.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 04:04 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
You're "nope" is never the right answer,


Sure it is.



Setanta wrote:
it is always a denial of anything which contradicts your ideology.


No, it is always a denial of anything that contradicts reality.



Setanta wrote:
You place reactionary ideology over truth, and do so habitually.


Funny how you can never show any place where I've ever avoided the truth.
0 Replies
 
 

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