11
   

Worlds of English

 
 
oristarA
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 06:28 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

My daughter is studying Mandarin at University, she says the main problem is pronunciation, followed by the different scripts. In terms of vocabulary she says it's not too bad, no January February March etc but Month 1 Month 2 Month 3 etc. No Monday Tuesday Wednesday but Week 1 Week 2 Week 3, an aeroplane is a flying machine.

She is really enjoying it though, and hopes to spend her third year studying at Qingdao University.


I believe she will soon conquer the problem of pronunciation, and scripts ( letters or Chinese characters) will emerge as top priority to be solved. Because the characters are so unique, hard to write, hard to remember. Very Happy My high school Chinese language teacher told the class that my handwritting was best, so I know too many Chinese people's handwritting are a mess... not to mention that of foreigners. ;D There is always exceptions, however, because faith can move mountains.

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 06:31 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:



A forced mixing of grammatical ensures that the patterns of the mother tongue will show up in the final results. It's the equivalent of teaching those students a bunch of false English grammatical structure. The idea in 2nd language learning is to break the patterns of the mother tongue and instill those of the target language.



Agreed. What is vital is directly absorb the patterns of the targeted lanuage.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 06:35 am
@oristarA,

JTT wrote:



A forced mixing of grammatical ensures that the patterns of the mother tongue will show up in the final results. It's the equivalent of teaching those students a bunch of false English grammatical structure. The idea in 2nd language learning is to break the patterns of the mother tongue and instill those of the target language.
oristarA wrote:
Agreed. What is vital is to directly absorb the patterns of the targeted lanuage.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 07:44 am
@oristarA,
Thank you for your kind words. she's already ahead of the others in her class, they've arrived from scratch, but she spent four years studying Cantonese at primary school, and conversational Mandarin at college. She's a linguist, and is also studying German and Spanish, and is fairly fluent in Japanese.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 08:14 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
My daughter is studying Mandarin at University, she says the main problem is pronunciation, followed by the different scripts. In terms of vocabulary she says it's not too bad, no January February March etc but Month 1 Month 2 Month 3 etc. No Monday Tuesday Wednesday but Week 1 Week 2 Week 3, an aeroplane is a flying machine.

She is really enjoying it though, and hopes to spend her third year studying at Qingdao University.
How will she apply her acquired knowledge ?





David
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 08:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Industriously.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 08:17 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
It requires enormous time and gigantic effort.
Some said 50% of time and energy of Chinese students have spent in English learning
and it was a great waste of resources.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I did not find it that bad when I learned it, Oristar.
David
oristarA wrote:
What is your first language, Dave?
I was offering a little joke. My first language is English.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 08:20 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Industriously.
Good Luckly.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 08:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
She intends working as a translator for a big international body like the EU or UN.
oristarA
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 09:42 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

She intends working as a translator for a big international body like the EU or UN.


Translator? Not interpreter? Moss Roborts, the translator had a decade ago completed his masterpiece Three Kingdoms. Can your daughter read Chinese version Three Kingdoms? If she could, her Chinese would be excellent as an CSL (Chinese as a second language) learner, and she would have the ability to discuss or post threads with Chinese language/characters on line.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 09:45 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


oristarA wrote:
What is your first language, Dave?
I was offering a little joke. My first language is English.
David
[/quote]

Learning a totally different foreign language would need tremendous time and energy.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 11:24 am
@oristarA,
Sorry, interpretor, her Chinese isn't as good as her German and Spanish, but she's only just started the University course. It lasts for four years, and she's about a third of the way through the first year.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 01:32 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Interesting. Bookmark.


Ditto
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 01:40 pm
@Butrflynet,
enjoying these
thanks
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 09:18 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I was offering a little joke.


Then I retract what I said in Post: # 4,844,432 and I apologise, David.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 01:57 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
I was offering a little joke.


Then I retract what I said in Post: # 4,844,432 and I apologise, David.


It is so rare that JTT would be so modest, especially before Dave. Very Happy
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 02:10 am
@oristarA,
True.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 04:47 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Sorry, interpretor, her Chinese isn't as good as her German and Spanish, but she's only just started the University course. It lasts for four years, and she's about a third of the way through the first year.
Does your child find pleasure
in the study of other languages ?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 05:12 am
@oristarA,
izzythepush wrote:
She intends working as a translator
for a big international body like the EU or UN.
oristarA wrote:
Translator? Not interpreter?
Translation is deemed to be LITERAL,
whereas interpretation is explanation in the words of the interpreter.
When I was a trial attorney in the courts of New York,
when translators were used for alien witnesses (e.g. Spanish)
attorneys were very strident in their demand that he TRANSLATE
NOT interpret. We pointed that out frequently.

That meant that the translator must put on the record
exactly what the witness said, with no explanation thereof.
Ofen, the attorneys (and sometimes, the judge) knew Spanish
well enuf (enough) to be aware of errors in translation
and we became irate and intolerant of those errors,
because thay affected viability of the case itself.
The attorney for the other side needs to be able
to attack the words used by the witness.
He cannot do that if the translator put mistaken words
(his own words) on the record of the trial.





oristarA wrote:
Moss Roborts, the translator had a decade ago completed his masterpiece Three Kingdoms. Can your daughter read Chinese version Three Kingdoms? If she could, her Chinese would be excellent as an CSL (Chinese as a second language) learner, and she would have the ability to discuss or post threads with Chinese language/characters on line.
Is the WRITTEN Chinese language understandable thru out China??

Are the written characters the same or different
between Chinese and Japanese ?





David
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 05:59 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
Sorry, interpretor, her Chinese isn't as good as her German and Spanish, but she's only just started the University course. It lasts for four years, and she's about a third of the way through the first year.
Does your child find pleasure
in the study of other languages ?


I certainly hope so, otherwise she's having a miserable time at Uni. Re interpretation and translation, you're getting stuck on legal definitions. For this purpose assume interpretaion relates to conversation, but translation is for a more weighty venture, like a novel or something like that.

Re your anecdote, all translation requires interpretation. Language patterns are different, and if you literally translate, it won't make sense. For example the French J'ai faim, literally means I have hunger, but you wouldn't translate it as that, you'd say I'm hungry. And that's just English and French, two languages with common roots.
 

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