Maybe, I've been on my own too long . . .

I think setanta hit the nail on the head. There is the matter of respect and working things out. A friend of mine here in town has even bigger difference in background with her husband than setanta and his sweetiepie do: She was born in Germany, and, although her family emigrated when she was a toddler, she was raised in a household that was European in its outlook and lifestyle. Her husband is Chinese. For a while, they were in academia, and, like many young academic couples, they lived in different states: while he taught at U-Georgia, she taught in Missouri. She recently told me that there was always a core of respect in their relationship and that although they fought over various things at different times, they always worked things out.

I elected to launch this discussion with thoughts of entertainment and personal environment because they are the microcosm of the macrocosm.
I think of how my boyfriend, with whom I never lived, insisted I bring up a lamp from the living room -- painted a color he called, "terracotta pink," the lamp matched the walls. It had been my mother-in-law's from the 1930s and I had bought beautiful shades for the matching pair -- over my strenous objections. Why? He would demand. The lamps are the pink of the living room while the bedroom is blue and khaki. That doesn't matter, he answered. They're too big for the bedside tables. That doesn't matter. He brought one lamp up. Unfortunately, he found the shade would not allow enough light for him to read and he would remove the shade. I would beg him not to leave my house without replacing the shade. Once, I had to leave for work before he left my house and when I returned, the lamp lay broken on the floor. Whether the cat knocked it over or whether a breeze from the open window did, had the lamp been wearing its shade, it might have survived the fall.

That began a struggle to have him glue the lamp together. You hate it, he said. No, I think its beautiful. But you said it doesn't match the bedroom because you have crazy notions about color. It matches the living room, I said, where it belonged. I asked you repeatedly to leave the shade on. I couldn't see! he answered.

This is not a story about decorating. It is a story about personal responsibility and respect. He broke an object because he modified its use. It might have been broken in the living the room, but his way of using it resulted in damage. He finally put the lamp on an amoire but never glued it back together. He brought over a brighter lamp that was more to his liking although I find it too intense to read by and must turn it to the wall, using the reflected light to illumine my page.

So, I have to add the notion of taking personal responsibility to setanta's working things out and seeing things from the point of view of the other person.

Good point, POM. I rather found that entire exchange bizarre. I would not personally have invested that much in a subject such as a lamp, and have to wonder what other things may have been going on under the surface. I give a great deal of thought to the relationship i have with my sweetiepie, and hope that i'll treat her with the respect she deserves. I hope she'll recognize that i have a right to a reciprocal respect.

Setanta,
I have this problem: I work so hard on things (like relationships) that I fail to notice that they are dead and that I should bury them.

I was with my husband for 12 or 13 years before I asked for a divorce. During the fourth or fifth year of that marriage, my husband sent out daughter, then two, to a therapist. I ran into while I was on my way to speak to a lawyer about my divorce, which was three years after I first asked for it. She congratulated me on finally getting divorced because she didn't know why I was struggling and working so hard on a horrible marriage! Well, I wish she had said that so many years before.

In retrospect, I should have left the boyfriend of the lamp story in the middle of the second year of our relationship. Part of the reason why I didn't is my former husband criticized me constantly for changing my mind and the boyfriend in question criticized me for not being involved in many of my previous relationships long enough to determine if they would work out.

Well, some changes in us come from personal growth and the acquisition of new information. As for the "relationships" I left too soon: I have never been sorry for what might have been.

I would say that's a good attitude. I had a very nasty, abusive experience with women when i was just a little boy, and harbored huge resentments for many years. Eventually, i acquired sufficient maturity to recognize that i was ultimately responsible for the relationship choices i made, and that if any of them were to survive, i must make an effort at their maintenance. I believe that with the exception of some extreme aversions, we can choose to love whomever strikes our fancy. Loving someone and living with someone is never likely to be a day at the beach, with everything perfect all of time. The only observation i have on women in relationships is that they are more likely to incorporate a relative judgment on themselves vis-a-vis the relationship into their self-image. I believe this accounts for the effort they make to keep a relationship alive when those around them think they should give it up.

All just anectdotal observations, Boss, take them as you will . . .

I am definately bookmarking this. The boy and I are getting married and just bought a house. Although together for 5 years we've never lived together. We're bickering about every little detail. Is the red paint red enough or too red? I want bookshelves and he thinks the room's too small. I scrape paint one way, he another - he inspects my work every 5 minutes and I tell him he takes too many breaks....and don't get me started on the wedding invitations!

Such a pain in the patookus and we haven't even moved in yet. For the time being I've decided that if I'm doing the work it will be done the way I want it. If I'm buying the towels, they will be any color I pick out. If he complains, let him do it himself. And he won't.

After an early exposure to The Iliad, I realized that in any enduring relationship both partners must be willing to make sacrifices for fair winds.

Many men of my generation--pre-baby boomers--tend to hark back to the golden years, pre-women's lib and feel that they know more than women in all spheres of life. Mr. Noddy is my second husband, an enlightened pre-baby boomer male.

In plainoldme's case it was her house and her lamp--and his decisions. Then she put up with his decisions, but made conditions for his decisions....

Once I'm widowed, I'll probably stay widowed. I've noticed that in the Social Security Set there are women who need a man full time--and women who don't.

Can't get along with them, can't get along without them, but I can choose to keep a veil of deep mystery between me and a man. This I will do.

Setanta,
I know I receive most criticisms of me by first mulling them over then experimenting with a change.

Some criticisms are ridiculous. In high school, a classmate said I smiled too much. Well, I have a face that smiles and I have little or no control over it. Besides, I thought she was sour.

My former husband was upset that I took the advice of a woman I didn't like. She was the wife of a friend of his and I didn't like her because she was materialistic and dressed to show off her body. She was however a devoted wife and mother and an academically bright person. There was a social evening during which something was discussed and she came up with a suggestion that worked perfectly. I don't remember what the thing was but my husband thought I should totally reject her idea. Why? What I dislike about her has nothing to do with her intelligence and her suggestion worked. It was very hard for him to accept the idea that a person isn't black or white.

That's not as off subject as it seems at first blush.

In all seriousness, the gf and I tend to complement (not compliment, though we sometimes do that, too) each other in our abilities. She's an organizer, I'm a tinkerer. She does color and fabric, I do use-of-space. She makes good dinners, I make good breakfasts. She understands bureaucracy, I understand electricity. Happy accident, I guess...

Cool, pdog.

(Or maybe there's been a subconscious stifling of instincts and that's the justification. But we met mostly because of shared passions for Tom Waits, Soviet Constructivism, and gin, so we weren't likely to clash too much over these sorts of shared space things.

Really, though, the pictures do get to me. For some reason I've always hated static, framed pictures. They interfere with my revisionist memory...)

Hey, Sugar. It was all chiefs & no Indians at our house at first, too. (Still is sometimes, even after 22 years together.) We've learned to divide responsibities. When we paint a room, for instance, one is in charge of walls, one is in charge of trim. He keeps his mouth shut about what I'm doing, and I keep my mouth shut about what he's doing. If we can't manage that, we work on the room at different times. We've learned the hard way. Same principle applies to paying bills, buying groceries, etc. It works for us.

Sugar,
I think your situation is just going to require patience . . . which, since you've been together for five years without living together, I would guess you have.

Talk about your different styles, and I don't mean Danish Modern v. French Provincial. Rather, I mean is one of you a get things done quickly type while the other is a let me think about it. I liked to live in a place a bit before making any changes unless the situation is pretty obvious that something has to go.

I was talking here of important things here, not matters of decor, annoying little habits, etc. The things one has to do to remain in an ongoing civilized, loving arrangement. After many years of doing my level best to "make things work" in my last relationship, I've come to the conclusion that it's necessary for BOTH people in a relationship to be EQUALLY considerate of the other for things to work. From my observation this rarely happens - one partner tries harder than the other, one is more thoughtful & obliging ..... Inevitably this leads to stresses, strains & bad feelings. Anyone whose met their "perfect match", I envy you!

Yer smart there, MsOlga...

Why, thank you, osso!

what's a hamper?

?

I'll take this question.

A hamper is a device used in a fireplace to control air movement. Always make sure the hamper is open when you start a fire.

what is it with men and hampers today?

Maybe it's a secret code, ehBeth?