Do you trust imported products?

@SAS,

I trust nothing from China. US, Canada, UK and EU have good standards, though every once in a while something will slip through.

1 Reply

@roger,

Chinese steel has virtually NO QA behind it. Weve used N box drill stem that we bought from China and the stuff just spaghettid up after three holes. When they report specs, of a steel product, you cannot believe it.

We buy all our bits from Bedford Pa.

I went to a Walmart and looked for one of the cheaper B&D circular saws. The one made in China was at least 500 watts short of the ones sold at the Black and Decker store.
So, while you may get a heaper price, you are getting an inferior product.

I look at all food products to make sure that NONE OF IT was made or produced in China.

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@farmerman,

careful farmer, you talk smack about the chinese and bobby gentel will call you a racist.

btw its the same in textiles as it is with steel or glass, stuff like that the chinese export is crap.

1 Reply

@kuvasz,

Is Mr Gentel on a mission ?

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@farmerman,

yeah, to prove he's an asshole. mission accomplished.

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@farmerman,

No, but I've argued in the past that to dismiss all of Chinese products on the basis of their well-known problems is an unwarranted stereotype (after all, everyone participating in this discussion is using Chinese products to do so), and kuvasz prefers a less intellectually honest description of my position, as he is wont to.

China's problems with QA and corruption in general are very real and very systemic, but they also produce some great products and it's a reductionist (to the point of ignorance) world view to dismiss them all out of hand. "Made in Japan" used to mean P.O.S. too, and those who clung to the stereotype too long did so in error. That is my only point, they have a stereotype that is well deserved but like all stereotypes it can become more broadly applied than makes sense and I think that a part of the mistrust is fueled by nationalistic fear of China in the US (and many other countries who view China's rise warily).

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@kuvasz,

kuvasz, could you dig through this kind of invective you so liberally spew and point out where I was an "asshole" to you? Laughing

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. . .and, meanwhile, nobody's really addressing SAS's question about food-safety. (I don't know enough about it myself to adress it.)

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@SAS,

"Imported products" are very general. Could you be more specific? If you gave us an idea of what kind of products you have in mind perhaps we could give you a better idea of their inherent risks, but to access such a broad range of possible products would be largely useless reductionism.

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@Robert Gentel,

http://able2know.org/topic/134915-1

You remain close minded towards experiences that run contrary to your philosophy. Warning about skullduggery in dealing with Chinese businesmen involved in the textile/chemical/polymer industries is not the same proclaiming the inherent evil of the Han race or culture. My past remarks, as stated, dealt specifically with the business culture of a nascent industry attempting to break into a new market. Regardless, you took the low road, attacking me for stereotpical racism, and that makes you an ignorant asshole. Your own experience in getting computer parts from China remain ungermane to the issue of that thread.

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Tuesday, election day, there was a TV news special coming out of, I think, Alabama, talking about how except in Alabama, something like 1% of the seafood we eat in the States was imported, and when AL tested it they found that something like 60% had really dangerous stuff in it. The Chinese and Vietnamese seafood products if I remember had apparently been aquacultured in water that had raw sewage in it.

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Ah, nope, maybe that was just Vietnam. Here's one example of the coverage of that story. Pretty scary stuff.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40198123/ns/today-today_health/t/could-your-seafood-contain-toxic-chemicals/

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But here's a report on dangerous food imports from China
http://documents.foodandwaterwatch.org/DecadeofDangerousImports.pdf

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@kuvasz,

kuvasz wrote:

http://able2know.org/topic/134915-1

I re-read that in hopes of identifying the assholery you claimed, but really can't find anything there that I want to apologize for. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

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You remain close minded towards experiences that run contrary to your philosophy.

That's a nice turn of phrase, but what are you talking about in practice?

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Warning about skullduggery in dealing with Chinese businesmen involved in the textile/chemical/polymer industries is not the same proclaiming the inherent evil of the Han race or culture.

I am sure you would then agree with me that it was a good thing that I made no such claim, but we'll probably disagree on the level of integrity this kind of straw man represents. I'd also point out that you didn't merely warn about it but spoke with absolutism that it would happen. That happened to be my primary objection, and while QA is a huge issue to deal with in China it is simply not as absolute a problem as you made it out to be.

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My past remarks, as stated, dealt specifically with the business culture of a nascent industry attempting to break into a new market. Regardless, you took the low road, attacking me for stereotpical racism, and that makes you an ignorant asshole.

I propose an alternate explanation wherein I did not use the word racist in that thread once and you did. I also posit that I can't be faulted for you deciding on my behalf that I am calling you a racist when I have not done so.

We can test this theory by loading up the page and searching for the text (control/cmd + F) and see if it bears out.

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Your own experience in getting computer parts from China remain ungermane to the issue of that thread.

Here again I'd like to point out that I never mentioned computer chips in that thread (mainly because I have no such experience with importing computer chips and my experience was largely centered around latex and vinyl from China and Malaysia) and that is once again what you came up with on your own and just started asserting as fact.

So let's get these facts straight:

1) I never called you racist. The very harshest thing I said to you was that you were engaging in some "ugly stereotypes."

2) This whole computer chips gig is another of the things you imagined I said, and where veracity took a back seat to an imaginative narrative. And I'd like to point out that I've already told you this in that last thread, and that you are having a hard time giving up your imagined "facts" for the real deal.

I posit that in your imagination I really was a total bastard to you, but I think your imagination does not correlate well with reality.

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@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

No, but I've argued in the past that to dismiss all of Chinese products on the basis of their well-known problems is an unwarranted stereotype (after all, everyone participating in this discussion is using Chinese products to do so),

If you recall, My criticisms were specific, tool steel (drill stems) and tools(B&D power saws).
However,I suppose Im apprehensive about Chinese food for import markets. Ive worked inChina and Taiwan and never questioned anything but all that was pre-time when the Chinese callously doctored formula with melamine and diazo compounds to up the protein concentration. That was unconscionable. As far as Im concerned , they skated on that one alone. Racism? puhleeze spare me. I didnt hear of any suitable follow up besides one factory manager who commited suicide. (He was not the owner or the formulary decision maker)

Course I wouldnt buy any chinese gypsum board unless I was looking to kill myself with H2S intoxication.

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it can become more broadly applied than makes sense and I think that a part of the mistrust is fueled by nationalistic fear of China in the US (and many other countries who view China's rise warily).

So the above examples are what? unfair criticism?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

If you recall, My criticisms were specific, tool steel (drill stems) and tools(B&D power saws).

Do you recall me even voicing slight disagreement with you? I don't.

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Racism? puhleeze spare me.

Why are you directing this at me? I've already pointed out that kuvasz's claim that I called it racism is a figment of his imagination and he's smarting about an accusation of racism that I never uttered and that he imagined all on his own. Read my posts in the thread he cited for yourself, try to find one where I talked about racism at all. If you bother to even read it (you won't) you'll notice he's the only person in the thread talking about racism.

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So the above examples are what? unfair criticism?

What gives you the impression that this is a position you should ascribe to me?

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@SAS,

I don't because we are not aware of how its being transported, are they taking care of hygeine who knows.

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@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

What gives you the impression that this is a position you should ascribe to me?

Because your "Sister Robert" speech above was directed to me, When we write responses we should play them over in our minds as to how they can be received. I received yours as a criticism that I was involved in some kind of racial stereotyping for even being annoyed at my shitty tool steel drill stems from China. My responses were more in line with rogers.
If you want to berate Kuvasz, then I think you should have the guts to begin with him . HE, AT LEAST, warned me that you were on some kind of tear against anyone who is generalizing about Chinese goods sepecifically. Then, you came along, and made manifest his prediction.

Dont worry, Im done now. Its another day and Id like to move on with the discussion.
However, pre meditateed , criminal "doping" of many produsts for export , seem to be a way of doing business , at least, in some Chinese circles. The country"s regulatory environment seems to be unable to get a handle on this criminal activity. When someone puts diazo salts into a protein mix shows a basic understanding of organic chemistry, chemical analyses, and a total disregard for human life. Weve taught many of Chinas scientific elite. Obviously something about ethics was lost during training.
I hope Chinas reg agencies grow up to meet these challenges because, as Ive always preached
"IF IT WERENT FOR REGULATIONS< NO COMPANY WOULD DO THE RIGHT THING WRT HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT". It has taken regukation and enforced responsibility that changed the US manufacturing base from the wild ass days of the "Gilded AGe" to the [present period which I call the "Regulazoic"

Ive said that all along and have not been proven wrong ever.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Because your "Sister Robert" speech above was directed to me, When we write responses we should play them over in our minds as to how they can be received.

Well don't let your mind get carried away.

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I received yours as a criticism that I was involved in some kind of racial stereotyping for even being annoyed at my shitty tool steel drill stems from China.

Fine, I'm just telling you it's patently stupid to receive it that way as I've not said a word about racism. I'm advocating better reading comprehension than what you and kuvasz demonstrate as well as the modicum of intellectual honesty that it takes to avoid just making **** up and putting it in your interlocutor's mouth.

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If you want to berate Kuvasz, then I think you should have the guts to begin with him .

What are you on about? I've said what I want to kuvasz.

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HE, AT LEAST, warned me that you were on some kind of tear against anyone who is generalizing about Chinese goods sepecifically. Then, you came along, and made manifest his prediction.

Your reading comprehension is reprehensible, I did not criticize you at all. He made a false claim that I disputed and you lack the ability to read the obvious. I have not criticized him or you for racism about this subject at all, my only charge against you two is an inability to follow a basic discussion without making up straw men.

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Dont worry, Im done now. Its another day and Id like to move on with the discussion.

Fine with me, but your senile inability to follow a discussion is irritating, and your facility with making up what your interlocutor says is flat out retarded and if you are going to make up abject nonsense I'm going to call you out on it.

I never made the criticisms towards you that you imagined and the only one I have for you here is your quotidian inability to read and comprehend basic English in these discussions.

1 Reply

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