Dr. Conrad Murray Found Guilty

I don't believe the Hippocratic oath mentions anything about special cases.

Not that much if you consider the money MJ made for the US.

Mr Murray's defence must have fallen short. They too reject the idea that MJ was a special case and thought that he was just like the rest of us. On the assumption, of course, that we all think the same way because they do. The Disease of Conceit.

But MJ was a shamanic special case and they have dismissed that notion as nonsense and thus denigrated his artistic status. And by concentrating upon just one of the usages to which the "milk of amnesia" can be put.

Artists don't give a **** about such things wayne. But you're going to make them eh?

spendi is always seeking a loophole

No offense meant but that is a line of bull if I've ever heard one. You are justifying a wrong and that cannot be done.

I don't care if it's Michael Jackson, the President of the USA or that guy down the street that murdered my dog. Right is right and wrong is wrong. This doctor made a bad choice. Sure, probably fueled by the fact that MJ was famous, big bucks, etc., but he still made a bad choice and broke the law and a MAN died because of it.

There is no defense for Dr. Murray giving Michael the propofol. That's why they found him guilty.

I'm not saying anything about that Arella. I'm saying that the thesis I'm suggesting is sufficient to put a doubt in my mind and I think a better defence could have put that same doubt into a juror's mind. And with a doubt Mr Murray is not guilty.

That you, like most of us, are sold out to "big bucks" does not prove Dr Murray was. I am not prepared to accept a 100% certainty that Dr Murray didn't stay with his patient for sound professional reasons. And that's a doubt. MJ wasn't about to do without this drug. And Dr Murray felt that his experience was better for MJ than an alternative supplier.

So it went wrong. Then we are talking after the event. And projecting all sorts of our own **** onto the two men.

No you're wrong! There is a code of ethics every physician takes and Murry was clearly compromising his. No reputable physician would have brought himself into such a situation as administering propofol in a private setting without nursing staff around to monitor the patient 24/7.

He's received $ 150,000/month from MJ for his services which include
prescribing narcotics and other medication that should not be dispensed
without proper cause.

Alone for the violation in his breach of code of ethics he should have his
license revoked and in the wake of MJ expiring while on Murry's watch,
it is involuntary manslaughter, rightfully so.

You want to play devil's advocate? Then go over to the evolution threads, spendi!

I am not sold out to big bucks so what's with that accusation? Sound professional reasons? Yeah, he went potty! You don't get it. You do NOT give propofol OUTSIDE OF A HOSPITAL setting, without emergency equipment, and you do NOT leave the patient. Dr. Murray admitted doing all of that. He admitted it. He told the police he gave him the drugs and he had no emergency equipment and he left his side. What more do you want? It came from the horses' mouth.

Amen!

Dr. Murray had substantial debts all over the place when he took this job--he has 7 children by 5 different women who were constantly hauling him into court for non payment of child support, and he owed a lot of money for various other expenses he racked up and hadn't paid. Dr. Murray likes to live lavishly, beyond his means. During the trial they showed video of him shopping for $150 ties for himself.

So, he definitely needed/wanted the money. And the amount he first demanded was $5 million to care for MJ during the rehearsals and during the tour--$5 MILLION. The $150,000 a month he finally agreed to was what he settled for.

And Murray's employer was not Jackson--It was AEG, the promoters of Jackson's upcoming tour. His contract was with AEG. And, according to the trial testimony, they were concerned about Jackson's medical condition just before his death and they didn't think Murray was taking very good care of MJ.

As it turned out, Dr. Murray was never paid for the time he spend with Jackson under this contract--he never received his $150,000 per month because MJ died so soon after Murray assumed his care.

That's absurd. The drug in question, Propofol, is a general anesthesia, used for surgery, administered by IV drip--it's use in a home setting, for treatment of insomnia, was unheard of.
Dr. Murray, who is not board certified in either internal medicine or cardiology, his areas of medical practice, definitely has no expertise, or known experience, administering general anesthesia.
That he felt he could safely administer this drug to MJ in his bedroom reflects Murray's arrogance, as well as his recklessly poor judgment and his complete disregard of appropriate standards of medical care.
And his motive for doing these things was greed. Had he any concern for his patient's well being he would not have risked killing him every night he gave him an IV infusion of Propofol, in a bedroom, without the necessary monitoring and resuscitation equipment that use of this drug requires, and he wouldn't have walked out of the room leaving MJ unobserved and unattended for 45 minutes while he talked on his cell phone to his girl friends, checked his e-mail, and sent text messages, only to find MJ not breathing when he finally bothered to take a look at him.

There was no doubt about the reckless criminal negligence of Dr. Murray, and its effect in causing the death of Michael Jackson--that's why the jury convicted him.

There was no good defense that could have been mounted for him--his grossly negligent actions were inexcusable according to every medical expert who testified in this case, including the chief witness for the defense.

Trying to blame Jackson for his own death was the only ploy they could try, and it just wasn't plausible and it really didn't jive with what Murray had originally told the police in a lengthy interview a few days after MJ's death. Murray's negligence was overwhelming and egregious and reckless, and Murray told repeated lies to try to cover-up his actions. But the prosecution did an excellent job of exposing that, and, because of that, Murray, and his story about MJ self-administering the Propofol, lost credibility in the mind of anyone who had listened to the evidence.

Doubts have to be reasonable, not just idle speculation. There really was no reasonable doubt in this case about whose actions caused MJ's death.

I watched the trial. The jury returned the correct verdict.

I am not wrong Cal. I'm just not a barrack room lawyer taking advantage of loopholes. What code of ethics applied in Nazi Germany? Your argument is tautological. Where's the code of ethics when doctors charge rates that the poor can't afford.

And I didn't say Mr Murray was innocent. I said that there is enough doubt to have found him not guilty based on the supposition that MJ was a true artist and had found he needed the milk of amnesia to create his art and that he was not going to do without it so that he could continue to boost the US terms of trade and that his doctor accepted that fact and took a professional decision to supervise it on the grounds that his experience of the patient was safer than something else. That MJ was a real patriot whilst the rest of these free-loaders only trumpet that they are. And that Dr Murray had the guts to take such a responsibility on his shoulders as a man and risk the wrath of the mob.

I accept I'm flying a kite and that the only person who could prove me right or wrong is dead but I think there's a possibility I'm right and therefore there's a doubt and thus a not guilty verdict is appropriate. That there was no manslaughter--there was an accident.

You obviously think that art can be found in Artist Material shops and they are the last place to look for art.

Yeah takes a lot of guts to do what he did. He caved in to greed and fame. Real gutsy. Cost a man his life.

Right, he took responsibility, that's why he plead not guilty and tried to blame it on the person that died. Yep, real guts there..

Yeah Arella--but you're guessing. Same as me.

I gather that anesthetists are the most common recreational users.

What does it mean that the FDA has not restricted the use of the drug?

Oh please, don't try to include Nazi Germany here just because I am German. We are talking about Conrad Murray and his wrong doings not about WWII. You are discrediting yourself here, spendius.

Who cares if MJ was a patriot or a true artist, we are talking here about gross negligence and involuntary manslaughter by a physician that caused his patient to die. Read firefox post, she explained it perfectly well why
Murry was found guilty.

None of the surrounding circumstances matter, spendius, the evidence
is clearly on the table, and based on that, Murry's license was revoked, hopefully for life, and he was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

Don't lose yourself in a public persona of an artist, he was foremost a patient and trusted his physician to do the right thing. His physician
acted against his code of ethics and administered narcotics to his patient in a private setting without proper support equipment and personnel.

Go away with your nonsense of Nazi Germany, patriotism and everything else that's hidden in your hope chest.

You really do love shitting all over professional men don't you ff? Every possible twist and turn in their evil ways has been well rehearsed and never the slightest chance of the benefit of the doubt.



It is other things too. Maybe MJ was searching for the Holy Grail of Soma.

Guessing? Guessing at what? Did you hear his interview with the police? He admitted giving him all of those drugs. He admitted giving him propofol. He admitted there was no emergency equipment. He admitted he left his patient unattended.

Not a dang thing there I need to guess at.

Spendius, not one medical expert will say using propofol as a cure or help for insomnia is right. Why are you defending a man who compromised his ethics?

I'd agree - it isn't like he was charged with murder - he was charged with involuntary manslaughter which is appropriate. He didn't mean to kill his gravy train - but he did - out of negliance.

He used a drug on a patient inappropriately that led to this person's death. Whether Jackson gave the final dose or the doctor doesn't matter. A reasonable doctor would only use in a hospital for the purposes in which it is intended. He provided the tools in which Jackson (who could not have the knowledge on how to appropriately use this drug) could administer it himself or Conrad administered it directly himself.

Either way as a doctor prescribing this drug in a way the drug is not expected to be use (as a sleep aid) and in an inappropriate way (at home vs in a hospital environment) - he was responsible.

How do u know that he TOOK that oath????

I 've heard that only about 1/2 of medical school graduates take it.
In any event, even if he did, he only swore it to his medical school.
Maybe the remedy is to revoke his diploma.

It never entered my head Cal that you are German.

A code of ethics is applicable wherever that code of ethics is applicable. That's why you have a tautology on your hands. It is a safe, no risk strategy I know but so was swinging in the trees. You will never be unpopular.

dave...

do you understand ethics?

they teach courses on it at university.

I think even lawyers have to take it...