7
   

FINALLY! The Protest movement is targeting our corrupt/incompetent Supreme Court

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 08:23 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Radio waves are not free for me to use. I can't broadcast on a frequency without paying money to the Federal government. That is Federal law. If radio and television are free speech issues then the government has made laws restricting who can use them. Essentially, they have sold free speech to the highest bidder. That used to not be an issue because radio and television were required to host opposing viewpoints as part of their license. Now, free speech is sold to the highest bidder and everyone else that can't pay doesn't have the same "free" speech.
I think u know better than that, Parados.
The First Amendment does NOT trump the laws of nature.
There is only so much bandwidth available; to avoid overlapping
and superimposition of one signal over a competing one,
the bandwidth was rationed, or distributed.





David
RileyRampant
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 10:02 am
@parados,
parados is talking, but they aren't listening.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 10:11 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I guess you can just ignore the rulings of the Supreme court on this one David..

This was the court's ruling in support of the fairness doctrine.
Quote:
A license permits broadcasting, but the licensee has no constitutional right to be the one who holds the license or to monopolize a...frequency to the exclusion of his fellow citizens. There is nothing in the First Amendment which prevents the Government from requiring a licensee to share his frequency with others.... It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount.

That repeal of the fairness doctrine was bought and paid for by those that don't want to share their free speech rights.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 10:13 am
@parados,
Quote:
It is the purpose of the First Amendment to preserve an uninhibited marketplace of ideas in which truth will ultimately prevail, rather than to countenance monopolization of that market, whether it be by the government itself or a private licensee. It is the right of the public to receive suitable access to social, political, aesthetic, moral and other ideas and experiences which is crucial here. That right may not constitutionally be abridged either by Congress or by the FCC.

— U.S. Supreme Court, Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, 1969.
0 Replies
 
NotreDame05
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 10:45 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Radio waves are not free for me to use. I can't broadcast on a frequency without paying money to the Federal government. That is Federal law. If radio and television are free speech issues then the government has made laws restricting who can use them. Essentially, they have sold free speech to the highest bidder. That used to not be an issue because radio and television were required to host opposing viewpoints as part of their license. Now, free speech is sold to the highest bidder and everyone else that can't pay doesn't have the same "free" speech.


The regulation of radio waves is not an infringement on free speech. Radio waves are not speech and the 1st Amendment Free Speech Clause protects speech, and only speech. Just as a bullhorn is not speech, radio waves are not speech, and while the state can consistently with the 1st Amendment regulate the use of a bullhorn by a speaker, the state can, consistent with the 1st Amendment Free Speech Clause, regulate the use of airwaves by speakers. You do not have a 1st Amendment free speech right to radio waves, or a license to use radio waves, anymore than you do a bullhorn.

So, I am failing to see any infringement on your speech rights on the basis the manner in which you want to speak, in this instance the use of radio waves, is denied to you. You are not being denied your right to speak, as you can still engage in speech without the use of radio waves, but rather you are being denied from using a specific method, means, or medium, and this I am not convinced is a violation of your speech rights.
0 Replies
 
NotreDame05
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 10:51 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

I guess you can just ignore the rulings of the Supreme court on this one David..

This was the court's ruling in support of the fairness doctrine.
Quote:
A license permits broadcasting, but the licensee has no constitutional right to be the one who holds the license or to monopolize a...frequency to the exclusion of his fellow citizens. There is nothing in the First Amendment which prevents the Government from requiring a licensee to share his frequency with others.... It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount.

That repeal of the fairness doctrine was bought and paid for by those that don't want to share their free speech rights.


No, it is more accurate to say advocacy for its repeal was by those who do not want to share the use of the bullhorn, which of course you do not have a 1st Amendment right to use a bullhorn already in use by someone else.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 10:53 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
I guess you can just ignore the rulings of the Supreme court on this one David..
YES, insofar as the CITIZENS UNITED case overrules that case, it can be ignored.

parados wrote:
This was the court's ruling in support of the fairness doctrine.

Quote:
A license permits broadcasting, but the licensee has no constitutional right to be the one who holds the license or to monopolize a...frequency to the exclusion of his fellow citizens. There is nothing in the First Amendment which prevents the Government from requiring a licensee to share his frequency with others.... It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount.

parados wrote:
That repeal of the fairness doctrine was bought and paid for by those that don't want to share their free speech rights.
The sale that u allege is only in the fiction of your dreams.





David
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 12:15 pm
@NotreDame05,
So.. You think it is OK for the government to provide one side a bullhorn and prevent another side from using that bullhorn and it means we all have equal speech?
I see it as the government insuring that one side can speak louder than the other side.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 12:22 pm
@NotreDame05,
Quote:

No, it is more accurate to say advocacy for its repeal was by those who do not want to share the use of the bullhorn, which of course you do not have a 1st Amendment right to use a bullhorn already in use by someone else.

That only works as an analogy if the government is the only one that can provide bullhorns, the government prevents anyone else by law from providing bull horns or using a bullhorn provided by the government and the government originally stated all persons could use that bullhorn when they sold it but now restrict it's use to the owner only.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 12:24 pm
@parados,
I think we can all agree that if a government said anyone that agrees with the government can use bullhorns and anyone that doesn't agree with us that uses a bullhorn will go to jail, then such a country would not have free speech.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 01:55 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I think we can all agree that if a government said anyone that agrees with the government can use bullhorns and anyone that doesn't agree with us that uses a bullhorn will go to jail, then such a country would not have free speech.


Yes, I suppose, but that's not what we are faced with.

The intent of the Fairness Doctrine (even viewing it in the most kindly of lights) was never to provide every point of view with the opportunity to have a turn with the bullhorn.

In our society today, I'm not sure that there exists a point of view that cannot connect with a potentially large audience through any number of media.

As has been pointed out, someone has to exercise control over radio waves or you would likely turn on your radio and either hear nothing but chaos or only the broadcasts of those with enough money to generate the strongest signals. If it's not the government, who should it be?

The Fairness Doctrine, or at least the effort to resurrect it, is designed to neuter Conservative Talk Radio, pure and simple. Liberal Talk Radio has tried and been far less successful, but no one can make the argument that only conservative viewpoints can be heard on American airwaves. No can argue that an effort to establish a radio station which aired only liberal viewpoints was somehow denied by the government.

If opposing viewpoints have an equal opportunity to take to the airwaves, why is it incumbent upon the government to insure they get equal airing?

0 Replies
 
NotreDame05
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 02:11 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I think we can all agree that if a government said anyone that agrees with the government can use bullhorns and anyone that doesn't agree with us that uses a bullhorn will go to jail, then such a country would not have free speech.


Perhaps but this isn't what we are discussing. So, this example isn't useful to make your point.
0 Replies
 
NotreDame05
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 02:14 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

So.. You think it is OK for the government to provide one side a bullhorn and prevent another side from using that bullhorn and it means we all have equal speech?
I see it as the government insuring that one side can speak louder than the other side.


No, this is not a good analogy. A better analogy would be the government has only 10 bullhorns and as a result, only 10 people can use a bullhorn, and allocating those 10 bullhorns is not an infringement on your freedom of speech. Why? First, because you can still engage in speech by use of other means other than a bullhorn, and you do not have a free speech right to use a bullhorn, or put another way, you not being able to use a bullhorn is not an infringement on your free speech.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 03:19 pm
@NotreDame05,
So. some people can speak louder than others.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 03:25 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

So. some people can speak louder than others.


Yes, but Free Speech doesn't provide you the right to be heard over the other speakers.

If you have the opportunity to be heard and you have something important to say, you will be heard.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 03:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
So the government can decide who gets heard then. It wouldn't be a violation of free speech rights to jail someone so no one can hear them.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 04:28 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
How is the government deciding who gets heard?

Radio is not the only medium for speech.

That some can speak louder than you doesn't mean you are not being heard.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 04:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
How is the government deciding who gets heard?

Radio is not the only medium for speech.

That some can speak louder than you doesn't mean you are not being heard.


Radio and TV is still the best route by far to get your messages out to the masses.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 05:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Of course.. it's equal if one person speaks to a group of 10 and the other is allowed to speak to a group of 500,000.

I'm curious as to which is being heard more?
NotreDame05
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2011 05:57 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

So. some people can speak louder than others.


You do not have a 1st Amendment right to have your speech to be as voluminous as another speaker's speech and this has never been a right, not even by the Framers or founding generation's understanding of free speech.
 

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