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Is Social Security Illegal?

 
 
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2011 09:13 pm
I thought we put this question to bed sometime around 1941, but apparently not. CNN is running a snap poll and to start (900 responses) 36% say that SS is not allowed by the Constitution.

It appears that the REPUBS have more support on cutting entitlements than I was aware of.

http://www.cnn.com/
 
MontereyJack
 
  6  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2011 09:37 pm
Nah. It's what always happens--some right wing whiner writes about it in his blog and all the know-nothings flock to vote--happens all the time with internet polls. It's now apparently around 20%

Quote:


September 29th, 2011
05:00 PM ET
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COMMENT (5 comments)
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CNN Poll: One in five say Social Security is unconstitutional
By: CNN Political Unit


(CNN) - Social Security reform has taken center stage in the 2012 presidential debate and one in five say the system is unconstitutional, but a new CNN/ORC International poll shows a majority of Americans have good feelings about the program.

Eight in 10 Americans think Social Security has been good for the country, with 70 percent of young adults agreeing and almost nine in 10 senior citizens saying the same.

Though large majorities of both parties believe the 75-year-old program instituted by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt has been good, about one-third of all Republicans think it is unconstitutional


Kinda hope whatever lame candidate the GOP finally chooses to run for president does declare that it's unconstitutional. That'll pretty much guarantee strong Democratic majorities in Congress and Republican irrelevance for a good twenty years before people will have pretty much forgotten about it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2011 09:40 pm
@MontereyJack,
It started at 35% and is now up to 38%, with 4000 responses...If this is not a manipulated number (cheating) that is amazing to me...
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2011 09:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
I just voted "No" (i.e. that it is not allowed by the Constitution). It is still at 38% though.

If everyone who reads this goes and votes "No", I bet we could get it up to 39% or maybe even 40%.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2011 06:16 pm
Isent it odd. The polls that back what one thinks are important but the ones that dont are unimportant. I think there all mostly bullshit. You can use the questions to cant the poll the way you want and choose the people that will make the poll say whatever you want.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 08:44 am
@RABEL222,
Do you have numbers to back that up Rabel?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 05:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Tell you what genius, I stated my opinion its up to you to prove that I am mistaken. Proof to you is just more of something to argue about so I am not going to waste my time with you.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 05:57 pm
Everybody knows that 38 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. That's been proven. (He said with an absolutely straight face.)
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 06:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
4000 responses

I'm amazed that we have that many Constitutional scholars in the entire US.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 10:06 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:

I'm amazed that we have that many Constitutional scholars in the entire US.


We are well passed the point of letting the elites decide such important questions, given the hash that they have made out of this once great nation. As a sign I noticed at the OWS rally said, para phrasing " Sorry to the Elites, we were asleep, but we are awake now".....
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 11:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
It appears that the REPUBS have more support on cutting entitlements than I was aware of.

It's a good thing, then, that constitutional questions get decided by the judicial process, not by votes. The Supreme Court has decided in 1937 that Social Security is constitutional, and hasn't since overruled its decision. The Social Security administration, whose website has a few pages on its history, collects those decisions in one place. You are encouraged to look them up there.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 11:34 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
It's a good thing, then, that constitutional questions get decided by the judicial process, not by votes. The Supreme Court has decided in 1937 that Social Security is constitutional, and hasn't since overruled its decision. The Social Security administration, whose website has a few pages on its history, collects those decisions in one place. You are encouraged to look them up there
The supreme court commands no military force so it can not impose is decisions, all it has is it power of persuasion and the deference that the American people allow it. In case you had not noticed the Supremes are not held in particularly high regard at the moment, they would do well to stop pandering to minorities opinions and the corporate class, before we all decide that we dont give a **** what the Supreme Court thinks.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 11:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
We are well passed the point of letting the elites decide such important questions,

Oh, god, you crack me up.

Planning a Constitutional Congress to eliminate that pesky third branch of government?

hawkeye10 wrote:
given the hash that they have made out of this once great nation.

Why do you hate America?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 11:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
The supreme court commands no military force so it can not impose is decisions, all it has is it power of persuasion and the deference that the American people allow it. In case you had not noticed the Supremes are not held in particularly high regard at the moment, they would do well to stop pandering to minorities opinions and the corporate class, before we all decide that we dont give a **** what the Supreme Court thinks.

Are you honestly proposing a military coup?

In case you hadn't noticed, all that's holding those soldiers to their duty is an oath to the Constitution.

You're getting nuttier by the day.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 11:54 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Why do you hate America?
I dont, I hate elites, because they are bossy incompetents who like to invade my sovereignty. I have had enough. We Americans are all equal, and it is time to reteach the elites what America is all about, as they have obviously forgotten. .
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2011 11:57 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
In case you hadn't noticed, all that's holding those soldiers to their duty is an oath to the Constitution


Wrong, they also swear an oath to the President.

Quote:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

Quote:
Aside from making judicial appointments, the president's only other influence over the Supreme Court resides in his power to enforce — or choose not to enforce — judicial decisions. This power is known as judicial implementation. As President Andrew Jackson once remarked about a ruling he disagreed with, “[Chief Justice] John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.”

What Jackson was referring to is the Supreme Court's inability to carry out its rulings. The Supreme Court can only interpret the law — it must rely upon the president and Congress to enforce its judgments and decrees. Most of the time this is not a point of contention, but if the president vehemently disagrees with a court ruling, it's within his discretion to refuse or delay enforcing it.

Following the landmark Brown v. Board of Education decision in 1954, which resulted in the order to desegregate public schools, a reluctant President Eisenhower was forced to send federal troops to Arkansas after the governor used the state's National Guard to block African-Americans from entering Central High School in Little Rock. Eisenhower only ordered the troops in after Governor Orville Faubus created a riot at Central High.


Disobeying a Supreme Court decision is a drastic political move fraught with danger for the president. Even Richard Nixon complied with the Court's ruling that he turn over his secret White House tapes to the special prosecutor. He knew that noncompliance would further erode his legitimacy and probably result in immediate impeachment. Only in the rarest circumstances will a president ignore or act contrary to a Supreme Court decision.


http://www.netplaces.com/american-government/the-supreme-court/checks-on-the-supreme-court.htm
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:03 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
In case you hadn't noticed, all that's holding those soldiers to their duty is an oath to the Constitution


Wrong, they also swear an oath to the President.

Mmmm.... Might be a quibble, but they do not swear directly to the President.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:05 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Why do you hate America?
I dont, I hate elites, because they are bossy incompetents who like to invade my sovereignty. I have had enough. We Americans are all equal, and it is time to reteach the elites what America is all about, as they have obviously forgotten. .

You apparently don't think America is great, anymore.

As for us all being equal... are you becoming a Communist, now?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:10 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Mmmm.... Might be a quibble, but they do not swear directly to the President
It is, because if the Supreme's start issuing orders that the AMerican people do not want followed which way do you think the President to going to go? Is he going to side with the court or the people? This is not China, the military will never cross the people, nor with the President.

Those sitting on the court best watch their P's and Q's, because I think that the American people have had just about enough of their BullShit. This is the answer to those who say "the Supremes said XYZ and if you dont like it then stiff it", as Thomas appeared to be saying.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 12:11 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
As for us all being equal... are you becoming a Communist, now?


Socialist, if you dont mind, or even if you do.....

Quote:
You apparently don't think America is great, anymore.


Apparently? I have said so directly multiple times that we used to be but no longer are.
0 Replies
 
 

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