12
   

Let's Talk Women's Suffrage!

 
 
wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 10:34 am
@JTT,
It does not seem like you are talking about the same topic that others are discussing on this thread.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 11:07 am
@wandeljw,
Shall we discuss suffrage for the people of the various countries who have lived under US installed brutal dictatorships, JW?

Here's a list from Military Veterans for Justice. Tell, me, JW, do you think that they hate America?

Quote:
USA Supported Dictators

Abacha, General Sani - Nigeria
Amin, Idi - Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo - Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio - Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal - Brunei
Botha, P.W. - South Africa
Branco, General Humberto - Brazil
Cedras, Raoul - Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio - Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek - Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo - Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo - El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn - Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel - Liberia
Duvalier, Francois - Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude - Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King - Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco - Spain
Hitler, Adolf - Germany
Hassan II - Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand - Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano - El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko - Zaire
Noriega, General Manuel - Panama
Ozal, Turgut - Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza - Iran
Papadopoulos, George - Greece
Park Chung Hee - South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto - Chile
Pol Pot - Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni - Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios - Guatemala
Salassie, Halie - Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira - Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. - Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. - Nicaragua
Smith, Ian - Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo - Paraguay
Suharto, General - Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas - Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael - Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed - Pakistan

Many of the world's most repressive dictators have been friends of America. Tyrants, torturers, killers, and sundry dictators and corrupt puppet-presidents have been aided, supported, and rewarded handsomely for their loyalty to US interests. Traditional dictators seize control through force, while constitutional dictators hold office through voting fraud or severely restricted elections, and are frequently puppets and apologists for the military juntas which control the ballot boxes. In any case, none have been democratically elected by the majority of their people in fair and open elections.

They are democratic America's undemocratic allies. They may rise to power through bloody ClA-backed coups and rule by terror and torture. Their troops may receive training or advice from the CIA and other US agencies. US military aid and weapons sales often strengthen their armies and guarantee their hold on power. Unwavering "anti-communism" and a willingness to provide unhampered access for American business interests to exploit their countries' natural resources and cheap labor are the excuses for their repression, and the primary reason the US government supports them. They may be linked internationalIy to extreme right-wing groups such as the World Anti-Communist League, and some have had strong Nazi affiliations and have offered sanctuary to WWll Nazi war criminals.

They usually grow rich, while their countries' economies deteriorate and the majority of their people live in poverty. US tax dollars and US-backed loans have made billionaires of some, while others are international drug dealers who also collect CIA paychecks. Rarely are they called to account for their crimes. And rarely still, is the US government held responsible for supporting and protecting some of the worst human rights violators in the world.

http://www.military-veterans-for-justice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=13
0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 11:28 am
@JTT,
JTT, I don't believe America does that. There are alot of good people here. I'd like to think more good than bad. USA isn't a bad place and if Americans were doing all of that then how come no one knows about it and tries to stop it? Those are horrible stuff but I don't think America causes it. Sad
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 12:05 pm
@GracieGirl,
Quote:
JTT, I don't believe America does that. There are alot of good people here. I'd like to think more good than bad. USA isn't a bad place and if Americans were doing all of that then how come no one knows about it and tries to stop it? Those are horrible stuff but I don't think America causes it.


I too believe that there are way way way more good people than bad in the US. I think that that's the same for Germany or Japan or many of the other countries that have committed atrocities just in the last century.

There are a lot of really good people who don't believe these things, Gracie, many are even here at A2K. After hearing for a lifetime that the US is some kind of savior for the oppressed of the world, it's exceedingly difficult for people to come to grips with the truth.

And I'm afraid to say that the truth tells us a very different story. But it's everywhere, if one is willing to look.

The US media, many people, high government officials have known of these things in every instance where the US has engaged in horrible brutalities in all those countries listed. And it has all been covered up.

All you have to do is check and you'll see that in almost every US invasion of countries the world over, the US has supported brutal dictators. In many cases they have directly engineered the overthrow of democracies and the installation of a US puppet.

Saddam Hussein was a US installed and supported dictator. The Taliban were created and financially supported by the US. But like all US dictators, they only last as long as they do exactly as the US says.

Here's a former top CIA agent who grew disillusioned with what the US was doing. He too initially believed that the US was doing these things for the good of others but his experiences showed him that the ideal was being met, was never intended to be met.

I warn you, his descriptions are graphic and you might not want to take this step. I can hardly blame you if you didn't, Gracie. But there's nothing wrong with having a realistic approach to one's country. You don't have to hate a country because its leaders have committed heinous acts. You can still love the country and just try to stop the crimes it commits.

That's what those military veterans are trying to do. I would say that none of them hate their country.

Again, don't watch this, read this, unless you think you are ready. It's not at all nice, but the truth often isn't.

THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA:
part I

THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND THE CIA'S COVERT ACTIONS IN ANGOLA, CENTRAL AMERICA AND VIETNAM

by John Stockwell
a lecture given in October, 1987

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_1.html

=================

THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA:

part II

CIA COVERT OPERATIONS IN CENTRAL AMERICA, CIA MANIPULATION OF THE PRESS, CIA EXPERIMENTATION ON THE U.S. PUBLIC

by John Stockwell

a lecture given in October, 1987

John Stockwell is the highest-ranking CIA official ever to leave the agency and go public. He ran a CIA intelligence-gathering post in Vietnam, was the task-force commander of the CIA's secret war in Angola in 1975 and 1976, and was awarded the Medal of Merit before he resigned. Stockwell's book In Search of Enemies, published by W.W. Norton 1978, is an international best-seller.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html

=======================

John Stockwell - CIA's War on Humans - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ioJGMCr-Y


John Stockwell: The Third World War - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VxnCBD9W4




0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 05:58 pm
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:
I think it would be awesome to vote but I don't get alot of political stuff.

Neither do many grown-ups. I don't want to make you cynical about being a grownup, but our political maturity tends to disappoint. I fail to see a categorical difference between grownups and teenagers in this regard.
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 10:45 am
@Thomas,
How? Are you saying that most grown ups don't know about political stuff? Didn't you guys learn about it in school like I'm learning now?

Or are you saying that some grown ups vote for people for the wrong reasons? Like how some people only voted for Obama because he's black and some people didn't vote for him for the same reason. That kind of political immaturity?
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 10:48 am
@GracieGirl,
Wise beyond your years that you see through the obvious thread diversion by that propaganda
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 12:40 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
Wise beyond your years that you see through the obvious thread diversion by that propaganda


Isn't that just the most god awful thing goin', Ragman, a "thread diversion"? Way worse than the slaughter of innocents, isn't it?

Your circumlocution is a dandy example of that political immaturity, not to mention just plain ole immaturity.

At least I hope that's what it is. The alternative ain't that pretty.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 01:31 pm
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:
How? Are you saying that most grown ups don't know about political stuff? Didn't you guys learn about it in school like I'm learning now?

We did. The question is, how many people are paying attention when they learn this stuff in school? And how, many people continue to pay attention to current events after they graduate? The answer to these questions is frequently sobering. Just in general, maturity and age are not as tightly correlated as grownups want you to believe. (Full disclosure: The author of this post is a grownup, too.)
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 01:34 pm
@GracieGirl,
On another thread, Foofie said something very interesting to JTT.

Foofie wrote:
I really do not understand why you believe that Americans should have your focus? By what authority do you make pejorative comments about Americans for just living a non-political life (which is our civil right as private citizens)? Unless you can explain where your authority to make pejorative comments about Americans for living their lives without your focus comes from, I have to conclude your pejorative comments about Americans are just personal feelings that reflect opinion, and not based on a valid argument. But, have a nice Halloween anyway. Don't eat too much candy.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 01:36 pm
@wandeljw,
How insightful of you, JW.

I see that you are not limited to one per year?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 01:41 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I really do not understand why you believe that Americans should have your focus?


And he is right.

But it truly puzzling why Americans like Foofie and you, JW, refuse to focus on the facts, when those facts explicitly tell us that the US has been, for well over a century, and continues to be engaged in brutal terrorist acts, brutal war crimes against poor innocent people the world over.

Why would you, why do you attempt to steer the discussion away from such an important issue, JW?

wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 01:45 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Why would you, why do you attempt to steer the discussion away from such an important issue, JW?


You are the one who attempts to steer discussions away.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2011 01:50 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
You are the one who attempts to steer discussions away.


Not at all. Gracie asked, JW. She said, "JTT, I don't believe America does that."

But the crucial thing you are missing or attempting to push out of the spotlight is,

"Why would you, why do you attempt to steer the discussion away from such an important issue, JW?"
0 Replies
 
 

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