Child Support as Politics.

@hawkeye10,

The operative word in all this that you are forgetting is child. It simply stands to reason that the child should not suffer because of the parents.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

The operative word in all this that you are forgetting is child. It simply stands to reason that the child should not suffer because of the parents.

Really?? So it should be illegal for poverty stricken adults to have babies right? Your morals are very selectively applied.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Really?? So it should be illegal for poverty stricken adults to have babies right?

Reducing your argument to the absurd helps you not at all, Hawk.

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@JTT,

Quote:

Reducing your argument to the absurd helps you not at all, Hawk.

So you, the one who is always on your soap box about the morale deficiencies of America, are not even going to address the fact that the American position is that the best interests of the child are paramount, except when it is not..... that there is no consistency in how the moral argument is applied.

Great.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

So you, the one who is always on your moral high horse about the morale deficiencies of America,

That's pretty rich coming from an American. Come on, Hawk, really, get serious, would you? This is a land that constantly boasts and preens and looks down its nose at others.

But you hardly need a high horse to see the war crimes/the terrorist actions of the US; unless, it seems, you're American. If the facts are brought up to y'all, perched high above the rest of the world, you act like little children encountering a scary movie - eyes shut and the fingers get stuck in ears.

Quote:

are not even going to address the fact that the American position is that the best interests of the child are paramount, except when it is not.....

My greater interests don't lie there. That is something that I leave to you the public.

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Once hawkeye and BilllRM enter a thread, all logic is out the window,
but JCusic is just right up their alley, that's why he was so eager to respond
to them and left boomer's and my issues completely unanswered.

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@CalamityJane,

Quote:

Once hawkeye and BilllRM enter a thread, all logic is out the window

Ignoring of course that it is I who is insisting upon consistent logic...right now what is advertised as logic is nothing more than a rationalization for doing what we want to do, morals are applied when it leads to the desired result and not applied when the result would be not desired.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

What issues had we not address CalamiyJane?

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@hawkeye10,

The consistant logic that says two people can each have 50% control over whether one of them has an abortion.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

The consistant logic that says two people can each have 50% control over whether one of them has an abortion.

Abortion is 10 minutes

Gestation is 9 months

Parenthood is a lifetime

Besides, I am not advocating giving men control over women"s bodies, this is not about controlling abortion, this is about empowering men....not making them fathers with out their consent. Now that choosing to not be pregnant is so easy due to advances in technology and pharmacy and almost fully with in the control of women we need to level the playing field when it comes to parenthood.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

The consistant logic that says two people can each have 50% control over whether one of them has an abortion.

A woman had ever right to an abortion or not however her completely independent decision to carry a child to term should not then placed her sexual partner under any obligation to pay for her choice.

That of course given that there was no agreement otherwise before hands ever stated or imply between the woman and her sexual partner.

If she wish to carry a child to term after her partner had declared he had no wish to take part in such a project then she should do so with no hope that the society is going to chase the man down and force him to pay for her decision.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
I think when you decide to have a child

Except in all cases, the father has no choice.
The woman decides if she wants to keep the child, or if she wants to abort it.
The woman decides if she wants to tell the father or not.

If you want a man to pay child support, he should have at least a 50-50 say in how that child is raised or if its born or not.

He can always choose not to conceive.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

we need to level the playing field when it comes to parenthood.

Indeed. Men must be fitted with uteruses, right away!

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

this is about empowering men....not making them fathers with out their consent.

Women robbing men of their sperm is a real problem. Don't be so bloody stupid, if you don't want to become a father stick something on it.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Quote:

He can always choose not to conceive.

In other word he had a choice of never having sex or taking the risk that some woman will turn him into a father against his wishes.

However a woman does not need to run any such risk as for her the act of sex even if she become pregnant is completely decouple from having a child or not having a child.

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@izzythepush,

Ok, let do what the right wingers are calling for and re-leveled the playing field between the sexes by banning abortions.

Then this imbalance would no longer exist either as after all the power not to become a parent against a person will can not be all that important if it is not important for men to have that right it surely can not also be important for women to have that right.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Don't be ridiculous, if you don't want to become a parent either use contaception or abstain from sex. I fail to see how a man can become a parent against his will if he follows those two simple rules.

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@izzythepush,

If I follow the argument correctly....

If a man has sex with a woman, and does not exercise his ability to use birth control, and she becomes pregnant, she then has the power to "force" him to become a parent.

The idea that a man might be required to be responsible for his actions is not to be tolerated.

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@DrewDad,

The point is the double standard.

There are two people who have sex and two people who did not exercise their ability to use birth control. They are equally responsible.

To one we say-- sweetheart, you made a mistake and are pregnant, but it is still your choice whether you want to become a parent or not. It is a big decision with lots of responsibility. Your financial well-being and career plans are important to us so we will respect your decision. You made a mistake but you don't need to go through with it if you don't want. We are here to support you with sympathy and concern whatever decision you make.

To the other we say-- sorry buddy. You made a mistake are now you are going to be a parent. Don't expect our sympathy. If you didn't want to have kids, you shouldn't have been having sex. Now stop whining and buck up and be a parent whether you want to or not.

You can argue the politics. You can point out that this difference is a necessity of biology or whatever.

But to ignore the double standard between how we treat young adults based on their gender takes willful blindness.

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@maxdancona,

Yeah, I get that you think it's unfair.

But I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. Life is unfair. Deal with it; I don't want to listen to you whine about it.

1 Reply

Child Support as Politics.

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