Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@reasoning logic,

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spendius seems to swim in deception in my opinion.

Offer some examples will you? How can I respond to an assertion which has no evidence to support it? Using the word "seems" like that is deceptive.

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@Frank Apisa,

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So apparently you think society requires that people not rob or kill because some god commands it.

I would have bet big money that you were smarter than that.

I didn't say any such thing.

God obviously exists in the real world because the entity exerts a force which has observable effects. That's the basis on which the electron is said to exist.

If you are going to miss the point of my post to such an extent and settle for a couple of weak jibes then perhaps we would be better having a discussion about something else.

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@spendius,

Will you be wassailing tonight mate? I will after I've taken the decorations down. I had a mate used to go round the pubs with a bunch of mummers, for all I know he still does it.

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@spendius,

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Offer some examples will you?

Next time I see you do it I will point it out.

God obviously exists in the real world because the entity exerts a force which has observable effects. That's the basis on which the electron is said to exist.

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How can I respond to an assertion which has no evidence to support it?

The same way you respond to claims about the bible?

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@izzythepush,

It's like God really I suppose.

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The purpose of wassailing is to awaken the cider apple trees and to scare away evil spirits to ensure a good harvest of fruit in the Autumn.

Frank would spend his time arguing that he doesn't know whether that is true or not and completely miss the point that it is actually a boozing festival with overtones of sexual promiscuity. A tame Saturnalia I guess now that you are all well brought up Christians.

The religious ceremonies of Canaan, and those in parts of Greece, are known to have climaxed in unspeakable depravities. By unspeakable I mean in the context of A2K. The White Goddess by Robert Graves gives a flavour of the events.

It was a capital offence to reveal what went on in the temples of Eleusis. Socrates, and others, who were charged with "corrupting the youth", may well have fallen foul of that law and evidence that he had done so couldn't be aired in an open court because the proceedings would corrupt the youth. Maybe the same principle applied in the case of Jesus.

Wassailing is not practiced where I live. Lancashire is a more scientific place than the West Country. We have booze-ups with sexual overtones every Saturday night and we seek no Pagan justifications for them.

I hope you have a good time though.

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@reasoning logic,

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Next time I see you do it I will point it out.

rl bottles out. He has no evidence.

He made up the smear. He's as deceptive and devious as a cart-load of monkeys. And the proof is right there.

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@spendius,

I'm not doing anything grand, just mulling some cider and adding a few choice ingedients. Mulled wine is OK, but mulled cider is brilliant.

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@spendius,

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@Frank Apisa,

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So apparently you think society requires that people not rob or kill because some god commands it.

I would have bet big money that you were smarter than that.

I didn't say any such thing.

Well, what you did say was: “If nobody knows whether God exists or not then nobody knows whether His law that we should not commit adultery is valid. Or rob. Or kill. "

What difference would it make if they knew that or not…unless you are suggesting they do not rob or kill because the god commands it?

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God obviously exists in the real world because the entity exerts a force which has observable effects.

Nonsense. I defy you to show any force which is undeniably the effect of a god force.

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That's the basis on which the electron is said to exist.

In your mind, Spendius. That is even more vacuous than some of the “proofs” offered by people who acknowledge they are theists.

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If you are going to miss the point of my post to such an extent and settle for a couple of weak jibes then perhaps we would be better having a discussion about something else.

Discuss…or discuss not. Your choice. I cannot discuss with myself.

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@Frank Apisa,

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unless you are suggesting they do not rob or kill because the god commands it?

How can God command it when there is no God? Are you not paying attention?

The tribal elders, and who else is there?, command it and then they invent the God to help them enforce it. A bit like the flag standing behind Mr Obarmy when he commands things. Give the commands some extra "uuumph!"

Odd how you are sticking to the robbing and killing and avoiding the sexual question isn't it? Which was the main point.

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Nonsense. I defy you to show any force which is undeniably the effect of a god force.

Millions going to church. And all it entails. To make the dollar look good. The writing of The God Delusion is only possible with a god force.

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In your mind, Spendius. That is even more vacuous than some of the “proofs” offered by people who acknowledge they are theists.

That doesn't mean anything so it is futile to respond to it.

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@spendius,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5218430)
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unless you are suggesting they do not rob or kill because the god commands it?

How can God command it when there is no God? Are you not paying attention?

The tribal elders, and who else is there?, command it and then they invent the God to help them enforce it. A bit like the flag standing behind Mr Obarmy when he commands things. Give the commands some extra "uuumph!"

Odd how you are sticking to the robbing and killing and avoiding the sexual question isn't it? Which was the main point.

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Nonsense. I defy you to show any force which is undeniably the effect of a god force.

Millions going to church. And all it entails. To make the dollar look good. The writing of The God Delusion is only possible with a god force.

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In your mind, Spendius. That is even more vacuous than some of the “proofs” offered by people who acknowledge they are theists.

That doesn't mean anything so it is futile to respond to it.

Okay, you have chosen "to discuss"...which is what I expected. So let me take it piece by piece.

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5218430)
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unless you are suggesting they do not rob or kill because the god commands it?

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How can God command it when there is no God? Are you not paying attention?

Unfortunately for you, I AM paying attention. As to your question: Iit beats the hell out of me. I have no idea of whether or not a god exists or not.

You, on the other hand assert “God obviously exists in the real world because the entity exerts a force which has observable effects. “

Not very often you find an avowed atheist suggesting that it is obvious god exists, but with you…all things apparently are possible. Whew! Does the farce never end?

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Odd how you are sticking to the robbing and killing and avoiding the sexual question isn't it? Which was the main point.

Not odd at all. You seem to go to the "sex" thing because you like to discuss sex. Get your jollies with someone else...or stick to discussing it with whatever sex partner you have available.

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Nonsense. I defy you to show any force which is undeniably the effect of a god force.

Millions going to church. And all it entails. To make the dollar look good. The writing of The God Delusion is only possible with a god force.

Like I said, I defy you to show any force which is undeniably the effect of a god force. The response you gave doesn't even come close.

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That doesn't mean anything so it is futile to respond to it.

But you keep choosing to discuss it...and I suspect you will continue to do so.

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@reasoning logic,

Hey Mate...What do you think about this?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

That was funny

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@Frank Apisa,

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Unfortunately for you, I AM paying attention.

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Whew! Does the farce never end?

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Not odd at all. You seem to go to the "sex" thing because you like to discuss sex. Get your jollies with someone else...or stick to discussing it with whatever sex partner you have available.

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The response you gave doesn't even come close.

All four are you marking your own homework.

But on the third--the reason sex is important is because it is what the subject is all about. It has nothing to do with my jollies. Sex on A2K is vicarage garden party stuff. Misogynistic actually.

Prof. Greer said that the Catholic Church is a fertility machine. And she was right. The problem in Northern Ireland is caused by differential fertility rates between Catholics and Protestants. The Emperor Augustus tried to get Roman citizens to have enough children to avoid having to have Barbarians and slaves in the armies. It didn't work. They wouldn't have it.

Sex is the basic issue in this debate whether you like it or not. The government can regulate everything else if it chooses. To regulate on sex it regulates itself as well and in a "kiss-and-tell" world. Disagreeing with the Church on sexual questions is the prime motive for attacking it.

It has nothing to do with me and you're having a free ride saying that it has.

How long before certain racial groups take over California?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I clicked on another one at the end of the video and this is what I came up with.

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@spendius,

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All four are you marking your own homework.

I wish that kid hadn't taught you that expression.

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But on the third--the reason sex is important is because it is what the subject is all about. It has nothing to do with my jollies. Sex on A2K is vicarage garden party stuff. Misogynistic actually.

No, actually, Spendius, I think it is about you getting your jollies. And read the title of the thread to determine what "it is all about."

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Prof. Greer said that the Catholic Church is a fertility machine. And she was right. The problem in Northern Ireland is caused by differential fertility rates between Catholics and Protestants. The Emperor Augustus tried to get Roman citizens to have enough children to avoid having to have Barbarians and slaves in the armies. It didn't work. They wouldn't have it.

Sex is the basic issue in this debate whether you like it or not. The government can regulate everything else if it chooses. To regulate on sex it regulates itself as well and in a "kiss-and-tell" world. Disagreeing with the Church on sexual questions is the prime motive for attacking it.

Whatever. There are many more reasons for being bothered by the Church.

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It has nothing to do with me and you're having a free ride saying that it has.

How long before certain racial groups take over California?

If you would stop trying to be so cute...and actually say what you mean to say...people might be able to understand you.

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@Frank Apisa,

I can't say what I mean. It's dynamite and we have young readers.

Ever heard of Dynamic Tension?

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Whatever. There are many more reasons for being bothered by the Church.

Nah!! Nobody would bother about the Church if not because of its teaching on sexual matters. And certainly not to the extent people are bothered about it. It would be just a club for members.

Give me an example.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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It was not bad mate...But I have to say he seemed very arrogant...And condscending thoughout the whole thing....

Think that Moses did see a burning bush and claimed it to be God but I think that Moses may have put the opium bush in his pipe and sat it on fire. It does make sense to me how a person could tell a story like that after they smoked opium in a pipe.

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@reasoning logic,

Moses had bigger fish to fry.

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@reasoning logic,

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Think that Moses did see a burning bush and claimed it to be God but I think that Moses may have put the opium bush in his pipe and sat it on fire. It does make sense to me how a person could tell a story like that after they smoked opium in a pipe.

Any empirical evidence for this?

What if the person who made the video was smoking opium?

Would it mean that you would think that Moses did see God in a burning bush? Without smoking opium? Or would you think the story was true... because the man who made the video was smoking opium? Or would it have no relevance...?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Any empirical evidence for this?

We could do a test and have people smoke opium and you could be one of them to see what you think. We could record your experiences and see what kinds of stories that you all could come up with.

From the earliest finds, opium has appeared to have ritual significance, and anthropologists have speculated ancient priests may have used the drug as a proof of healing power.[10] In Egypt, the use of opium was generally restricted to priests, magicians, and warriors, its invention is credited to Thoth, and it was said to have been given by Isis to Ra as treatment for a headache.[6] A figure of the Minoan "goddess of the narcotics", wearing a crown of three opium poppies, circa 1300 BCE, was recovered from the Sanctuary of Gazi, Crete, together with a simple smoking apparatus.[12][13] The Greek gods Hypnos (Sleep), Nyx (Night), and Thanatos (Death) were depicted wreathed in poppies or holding them. Poppies also frequently adorned statues of Apollo, Asklepios, Pluto, Demeter, Aphrodite, Kybele and Isis, symbolizing nocturnal oblivion.[6]

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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