Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Please reread the First, second, fourth, and last Post carefully...

How was what I said to you, any different than what you said to me?? Notice how I ended it...And notice how you ended it...By dropping me as a friend and ignoring me...

Please try and read this reply as an inspirational reply rather than one that is negative Idea

We all make mistakes at times Ryan. I personally think that Chights has said some things that many of us would like to say but we also realize that it may do no good.
"Is all of what he said correct? I doubt it but I do share many of the ideas that he has put forward and I also think that "he may have had to much expectation of you.

I try to accept people for who they are regardless of how insane or sociopathic and so forth they may be. I am not suggesting that you are any of these.

He does seem to have a good understanding of cognitive neuroscience but I do question if he may have felt that he had invested a lot of time into you hoping that you would come around and love the truth "the best that he understood it" that he was trying to share with you.
I think that we all have different perceptions and this at times does not allow others to perceive what we would think should be obvious especially after we have vested so much time in explaining ourselves.

We can be very intelligent and also be naive realist, religious or whatever you would like to use.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

I think you are getting a bit carried away Spadie.

Maybe you right mate! And thanks for the look out! Would you like to set us up with 4 shots of 1800??? lol....

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Re: wmwcjr (Post 4958328) I think that those things do play an important part of the kind of individual one is. Frank would never dream of cooking a missionary in a cauldron just as a cannibal would never dream of teeing up a golf ball and sending it scuttering 70 yards into the rough.

I sincerely like your post, spendius. Smile

If you mean deeds when you say "those things," I'd say it's definitely true that one's deeds define his character. If you mean world view (of whatever kind) or ideology (especially), one's world view or beliefs often determine his actions, sometimes to the extent of doing evil to another human being.

That's all I can say by way of responding to your post with the little profundity that I can muster. I'm not as educated as you are. I should be, but I'm not.

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@reasoning logic,

I agree...But the thing that shows it was the other way around here...

Is that I was willing to start over...And have him explain what he felt about me...So that we could repair our friendship...And he declined....

So, I presume, he never actually thought of me as a friend to begin with...Or it would not take much convincing for that person to put aside their differences, and start over...

Just my 2 Cents

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

I was willing to start over...And have him explain what he felt about me...So that we could repair our friendship...And he declined....

Time heals.

I prayed to Father Time and now we will have to wait. I guess I will soon know if prayer works. Wink

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@reasoning logic,

What if it does?? Would you actually embrace a god if it did?? Wink

If you'd not...And answer that not in the affirmative...Then I appreciate it...But it seems you were not actually praying...Just testing God...

Anyways, I hope we are friends again as well!! Wink

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

What if it does?? Would you actually embrace a god if it did?? WinkWinkShocked

I would embrace father time if he answered my prayers more than 60% of the time. If it could be statistically proven that it was only when I prayed that I got what I wanted more than 60% of the time, I would call him daddy if he wanted me to.

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@reasoning logic,

lol

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I would embrace father time if he answered my prayers more than 60% of the time. If it could be statistically proven that it was only when I prayed that I got what I wanted more than 60% of the time, I would call him daddy if he wanted me to.

But you do understand the thing about a God and prayer?...Is to Not set up the fact of how you believe he will in fact answer it?...Or having pre- expectations as to what you would call acceptable or not??

You have to totally submit, for the notion of God, and his principals to work...

If you ask me to explain fully why? I do not know other than God chose faith to find him...

And if you say Do you really believe I am in the wrong for the way I "try" to find a god?? That is not my call...All's I know is the way to find God, is the way I listed above, thru total submission...Otherwise it is putting any God that maybe real on a test, not about accepting faith...

Again my 2 Cents

But thanks for the Idea...at least your willing...

This reminds me of some others...as well as myself at times...

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I'm quite happy to put our argument to bed. I don't really want to spend time arguing with you, in truth I did put you in the same (preachy) category as BillRM, and if I'm wrong in doing that I apologise.

Thank you for this.

izzythepush wrote:

My problems with him go across a number of threads, he seems to regard viewing child pornography as something that shouldn't be punished, only the makers of such material. He supports Zimmerman, the man who gunned down a black teenager, he always takes the side of the rapist in rape allegations, and has taken the side of a drunk driver who killed a cyclist. In short he only seems concerned with his own pleasures, and when someone like that claims the moral high ground, I get very angry.

I actually agree with what I've seen of his argument for "child" pornagraphy. A 17 year old sending naked pics to her 18 year old boyfriend is much different than a 6 year old sending naked pics to a 40 year old. Any logical person knows there is no black and white so why should the punishments be the same for these clearly different "offenses" if you could call the previous an "offense" at all. I haven't seen all that he's written on this matter but this is the geist of what I saw. I'm not certain of the Zimmerman case, but I feel that everyone is entitled to a fair trial and should be judged harshly beforehand. From what I do know, I think Zimmerman is guilty but I'll wait for the verdict...if one comes. As far as rapist, from what I've seen I would agree, but I've only seen very little. Basically I don't think that people should be judged just based on what the media says, but based on what is factual. So many people seem to love to ruin the lives of other people just based on how the media portrays them in that harsh light. What sticks out in my mind is the man that was supposedly watching child porn on an airplane. Whether he was or not is beside the point because it's almost a guarantee that he will be thought of as a pervert for many years to come, if not the rest of his life...regardless of what the truth is.

izzythepush wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of any of that, just the preachy bit. When FS told you about her spiritual experiences your response was to ask her to watch a video that gave a rational explanation for such experiences. That sounds a bit preachy to me. Then again if you think it's just debate I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I must say that now that you've calmed down you seem a very pleasant fellow and I really do appreciate how you have responded in this post. I don't exactly know how you understood that to be "preachy" however. I'm not certain how I could have exactly responded to her statment in a different manner. I was actually slightly hesitant to post that video based on how it was received the last time I posted it ( you can ask spade how well that went). I think it's a very accurate and detailed video explaining the neurological and psychological processes that go on when people believe they have supernatural experiences.

izzythepush wrote:

On this we will have to disagree. Language is not a fixed thing, it changes. Evangelical may once have specifically referenced Christian gospels, but now it can be used in a wider context. I'm not the only person to use the phrase 'evangelical atheist,' and even if I was, I'm a writer. We do this sort of thing all the time, that's part of what writing is.

Well if you google it, google's definitions allude to it being a christian term. I do understand that words are merely arbitrary hosts of meaning and that the combinations of vowels and consonants are not what really matter so I'll abandon this friovlous pursuit. Either way the meaning is clear so now it's nothing more than a moot point.

izzythepush wrote:

With regard to your comments on Islam and terrorism, you may be interested in the following.

Quote:
Perhaps no theory could have predicted Jamal Ahmidan, a mastermind of the Madrid bombings. He was a feisty drug dealer with a passion for motorcycles and a weakness for Spanish women. His fellow plotters from the old neighborhood in Morocco included petty criminals and a candy vendor. If they seemed a poor fit for militant Islam, so were the young men from Jamaa Mezuak who eventually left for Iraq. One styled his hair after John Travolta. Another was a frustrated comedian. They had yearned for a life in Europe, it seemed, not death in the Middle East.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/magazine/25tetouan-t.html?pagewanted=all

I saw an interview on Al Jazeera with someone who had made a particular study of Al Qaida inspired terrorism. (Sorry I can't find it, I have been looking.) He said that the religious types don't fall for the Al Qaida line, there are people in the Mosques that look out for it. It tends to be people like Ahmidan, angry men, looking for some way to vent their anger. In any event I'm sure you'll agree he doesn't sound like a religious fundamentalist.

I still find it hard to believe that even a large fraction of the people in those terrorist organizations aren't there at least in part because of their religion.

izzythepush wrote:

In any event, I would like to draw a line under the name calling, and discuss things with you in a more civil manner.

I'm not exactly sure what "draw a line under" means but based on the context I would assume that you basically want to stop name calling and start discussing. If that the case then I'm in! I'm not sure if it's the alcohol talking of if it me (or some mix in between) but I like you a whole lot more when you are slanderous towards me and just discuss things...fyi, I'm really drunk now. I tried the new Bud Light Platinum and it is awesome!...I really don't drink much though.

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

FOUND SOUL wrote:

Quote:
whilst each person's mind is different, the belief appears to be the same

Quote:
care to explain why there are about 36,000 different denominations of Christianity around the world instead of just being 1...as there is just the same singular god that is worshipped by all of these different denominations.

If our minds are different Chights, then we are going to think differently about religion and that can be, "your God" and how you see him represented to you, or that your culture adds into the equation of this belief. Ultimately, there may be 36,000 different denominations but like I said, ultimately, there is one belief. "Belief in a God, or Non-belief in a God".

I could understand a little difference but if you tell me that the god of the Westboro Baptist Church and the God of the Lakewood Church under Joel Osteen are the same god, then I guarantee I'll laugh straight in your face and not feel a speck of remorse for doing so. If god's are as different as we are from each other, I would think that this is just more evidence that "god" is merely a concept in our minds, and that it is just whatever we want it to be.

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Time heals.

I prayed to Father Time and now we will have to wait. I guess I will soon know if prayer works.

Time does heal because it gives us time to think and to reflect...as far as mental "wounds"that is. Prayer only works in the nonsensical and tautological sense however...just wanted to clarify that before I reply to spades post.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

I agree...But the thing that shows it was the other way around here...

Is that I was willing to start over...And have him explain what he felt about me...So that we could repair our friendship...And he declined....

So, I presume, he never actually thought of me as a friend to begin with...Or it would not take much convincing for that person to put aside their differences, and start over...

Just my

You stabbed my apology/explaination in the face and you expect me to forgive you? What sort of "friend" does something like that? Not only did you stab by apology in the face, you hammered it home right after. Were we friends, I don't think so, only based on the fact that I have extremely high standards for "friends" which you could never qualify (seeing as how we're only online acquaintances). Of the people that I do know on here, you were probably my best friend out of them all (which is pretty high up there), which made your betrayal hurt that much more. I invested a great deal in you and to have that thrown in may face like it was, wasn't very nice. If it was just me and you here I would have let you known how I felt, and believe me, it would not have been pretty (which is why I kept it to myself). My "inner demon" comes out when things like that happen and I get downright terrifying, my (now) fiance saw me like that once (before we were dating) and thought I was the devil incarnate or something like that.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

I do not understand why they would label these other gods, Gods...

The Catholic church had sub gods with supernatural powers call saints as in pray to the Virgin Mary.

1 Reply

@Chights47,

I so don't believe that people's "Gods" are all alike. I am merely saying the concept, of what God means to people, in general is. And, so, they either believe in a God or they don't. How they see that God is the same way, how people see their future husband/wife and in that, they change their thought patterns somewhat as well to what they originally thought. Our minds, choose how we see things, unless we are brainwashed, weak, and follow others.

Quote:

I must say that now that you've calmed down you seem a very pleasant fellow and I really do appreciate how you have responded in this post. I don't exactly know how you understood that to be "preachy" however. I'm not certain how I could have exactly responded to her statment in a different manner. I was actually slightly hesitant to post that video based on how it was received the last time I posted it ( you can ask spade how well that went). I think it's a very accurate and detailed video explaining the neurological and psychological processes that go on when people believe they have supernatural experiences.

I am sorry, just wanted to let you know I still intend to look at it, along with also what Spades has sent me via PM...

However, last night I was looking at my fiance, talking to him and my step-daughter and over the top of his shoulder I saw this "person" smiling and darting by, kind of stayed still for a second otherwise I wouldn't have seen the smile. I felt "peace" and said something along the lines of Wow... David got up and went into the bedroom and the other rooms to make sure it wasn't "real".. My daughter merely asked me if it was friendly.. I said, it was one of two people. The time was 9.24pm.. Both my fiance and my daughter believed me, why wouldn't they. I've been able to tell my fiance something of his dead Uncle that only he knew, coupled with exactly what he looked like and I've never met him. I don't know how you feel that video is going to explain that. Either of those scenarios. But, I am sure that our brain is very active and can go beyond the norm. But, I'm also guessing as such, those that can do that, can in-deed see things that you can't, because of one reason.. Belief..

1 Reply

@FOUND SOUL,

FOUND SOUL wrote:

I so don't believe that people's "Gods" are all alike. I am merely saying the concept, of what God means to people, in general is. And, so, they either believe in a God or they don't. How they see that God is the same way, how people see their future husband/wife and in that, they change their thought patterns somewhat as well to what they originally thought. Our minds, choose how we see things, unless we are brainwashed, weak, and follow others.

As much as I like to discuss things with I don't feel that I should. I do really like you and value you as a partner in discussion, but I don't think we should continue unless we rick hurting each other feelings. You seem that spirituality is very ingrained in your being so if I had any hopes of trying to get you to see my way in things, I would have to either rip that out, or overwrite them, neither of which would be pleasant. In discussion, I'll admit that when I do talk about something, I aim to win, if not I just want to listen and learn. On this topic however, I don't think anyone would win, even if they do win...if you understand my meaning.

Quote:

I must say that now that you've calmed down you seem a very pleasant fellow and I really do appreciate how you have responded in this post. I don't exactly know how you understood that to be "preachy" however. I'm not certain how I could have exactly responded to her statment in a different manner. I was actually slightly hesitant to post that video based on how it was received the last time I posted it ( you can ask spade how well that went). I think it's a very accurate and detailed video explaining the neurological and psychological processes that go on when people believe they have supernatural experiences.

I am sorry, just wanted to let you know I still intend to look at it, along with also what Spades has sent me via PM...

However, last night I was looking at my fiance, talking to him and my step-daughter and over the top of his shoulder I saw this "person" smiling and darting by, kind of stayed still for a second otherwise I wouldn't have seen the smile. I felt "peace" and said something along the lines of Wow... David got up and went into the bedroom and the other rooms to make sure it wasn't "real".. My daughter merely asked me if it was friendly.. I said, it was one of two people. The time was 9.24pm.. Both my fiance and my daughter believed me, why wouldn't they. I've been able to tell my fiance something of his dead Uncle that only he knew, coupled with exactly what he looked like and I've never met him. I don't know how you feel that video is going to explain that. Either of those scenarios. But, I am sure that our brain is very active and can go beyond the norm. But, I'm also guessing as such, those that can do that, can in-deed see things that you can't, because of one reason.. Belief.. [/quote] Yeah, my video might explain the phantom that you saw, but not you knowing things with supposedly not having any prior knowledge of. The video that I posted is meant to explain when people see ghosts or hear god or things like that. Basically it explains things that could be written of as merely a trick of the senses.

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@Chights47,

That's perfectly fine.

I will still watch the video...

When two minds are so different, yet the same.. Neither will ever win.

Quote:

My "inner demon" comes out when things like that happen and I get downright terrifying, my (now) fiance saw me like that once (before we were dating) and thought I was the devil incarnate or something like that.

And, if you feel you can get down right terriying and have an inner demon there is no way on HELLS Earth we will agree Smile

I hope I still learn 1 thing everyday. That's my plan in any event.

What you are saying however, just on a last note and respectfully I respect your opinions, thoughts and own beliefs, why wouldn't I.. They belong to you... But, you are saying you are not prepared yourself, to be open enough to learn that it is possible to pass a message onto someone, whom has passed... I'm proof of that... And, that can not be in my mind....if the said words were known to others and never to me.

Just saying...

I'll stop now Smile

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@Chights47,

It ALL started with your post of How I had my head up my ass, and how much significantly dumber I was than a lot of others on here...

If you refuse to except that. that is your problem...

When I gave the hate back from where it came, you refused to answer me, Like a big baby...Then When I sucked it up, and said I do not think you are pathetic and hateful...(which you called me BTW) and said tell me what you feel about me, so we can get over it, and be friends again...

You blocked me, and did not answer....

I made the attempt, though you started it all...

And because you felt I was just down right wrong, although the actions were 50/50...You feel like I am the asshole here? Not a chance!

The fact you were NOT willing to let it go, answer my question, and get on, and be friends again...Shows CRYSTAL CLEAR what kind of friend you are....Or what kind of a person or friend you thought I was from the beginning...

Please do not try to scare me, with the I would not be pretty to you, I am the Devil thing...It has no effect...I am pissed too, and am not shy of conflicts if they arise...I would not run from you with my tail between my legs...Like you think...

And I have actually seen the Devil, and fought him before...(whether you think it is bullshit I spew or not) I have been in Hell etc...No Human would rattle me at all...Not even if they had a pistol to my Head!

The only thing that would bother me, Is if you went after a family member of mine, who is not as strong, to get at me....But by your above post...It seems you had no intention of being a coward like that...So I say, I am not afraid...

You wish to hate me, and think I am pathetic...

And block me, Whatever makes you feel better...

Like I said in a previous post...

Go your way....I wish you the best of luck with everything you pursue...It was nice knowing you....Have a nice life....

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@BillRM,

Quote:

The Catholic church had sub gods with supernatural powers call saints as in pray to the Virgin Mary.

Saints Are not Gods...In the Catholic Church...Neither are Prophets, Nor Apostles...They still bend their knees and give glory to Jesus Christ...

Hindu, actually says there are millions of Gods...With one Divine trinity...

It is a Polytheism, and a Monotheism...Interlaced...

There is no such God as a religion of Polytheism...and if it is a Monotheism, with sprinkles of Polytheism in it...It still is not plausible...

Because there is no need for Gods to control things...If One God has the power to do it all....

So it either destroys the notion of these sub Gods...as not plausible...Or it happens but destroys the notion of this Divine God controlling it all...

Any true Monotheism that exists...Is already more plausible than any belief of a Polytheism...And that goes with Hinduism, and Mythologies...Such as Greek...With your friend Zeus, you constantly bring up...

1 Reply

@Chights47,

I am not trying to control your life choices...I have been drunk many times in my life....

But I guess it is true when people say what they really feel when they are drunk!!!

Quote:

You stabbed my apology/explaination in the face and you expect me to forgive you? What sort of "friend" does something like that? Not only did you stab by apology in the face, you hammered it home right after. Were we friends, I don't think so, only based on the fact that I have extremely high standards for "friends" which you could never qualify (seeing as how we're only online acquaintances). Of the people that I do know on here, you were probably my best friend out of them all (which is pretty high up there), which made your betrayal hurt that much more. I invested a great deal in you and to have that thrown in may face like it was, wasn't very nice. If it was just me and you here I would have let you known how I felt, and believe me, it would not have been pretty (which is why I kept it to myself). My "inner demon" comes out when things like that happen and I get downright terrifying, my (now) fiance saw me like that once (before we were dating) and thought I was the devil incarnate or something like that.

I considered you a great friend too! But not after reading your two posts of how I had my head up my ass...And how much dumber I was then everyone else!!

And unlike you...I can say this...Without the threats...Of unleashing an inner demon on you...Or being confrontational....

Go your way...We do not have to talk anymore...You have other friends on here...So do I...Go...Leave me be...I will be fine....I wish you the best! I really do!!

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Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

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