Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

There was never a "deal." You may by a control freak, but you don't get to constrict my participation here. I'm not a "cause," either, lost or otherwise. You have made claims, more and more extravagent, and you haven't backed them up--which includes after you claimed you could link them. That's why i think you're a liar--and i can deal with it just fine.

They are loose cannons indeed but so was many many Popes in the history of the church and those men had positions in churches and hold offices in churches.

Sorry no matter how you try to spin it otherwise they are leaders in a not small element of Christianity not acting alone nuts.

Where's the beef Bill. Tell us which US-based Christian groups are backing the execution of homosexuals in Africa.

The past is dead and gone. The question of the thread is in the present tense.

We know very little about the circumstances past Popes were operating in. We don't even know the meaning of a lot of the words used by them.

They were ghastly times it seems to me. We can't possibly get our heads around how they felt about what they were living in. We interpret their arts at our peril.

Either study them closely or forget about it. When did you ever pass a stake driven into the ground with blackened chains hanging off it and a heap of ashes on the ground?

What do you know about how our world was brought into being and how it is maintained? How would you bring an atheist world into being and maintain it?

You're shouting at the Himalayas unless you can answer the questions.

Sorry Farmerman, I do not believe you are a fuckwit....I said that in the heat of the moment....So I apologize to you....

Just wish you would not snarl at me, and always be against me because I took Spendi's side in the

"but the moon is not made of green cheese" post

My "lord" you what the names of the churches these three assholes had positions in and hold offices in is that what you are asking?

Not a problem to do at all to do if that is your question so is it or is it not your question?

These men are Christians leaders as we all know not three men acting alone as you seems to be claiming.

I find it amusing how dishonest religion persons tend to be in defending the bad acts of people acting as agents of one branch or another of Christianity.

At least fm suggested a brain re-orientation course for Christians. He might have been being droll but the thought is the origin of all drolleries. Are you up for that?

He didn't bother with describing the consequences if his re-hab course worked as good as Dr Benway's did. You could do millions at once on TV at Primetime. An attempt to persuade a stubborn saint to give it up using the latest in techno-gizmo. Intelligently designed.

It ain't me Babe. But knowing fm as well as I do his compassion would go in for longer courses of persuasion using logic and rational, critical thinking and he could get his followers into cushy, well paid jobs. The main qualification being the ability to use logic and rational, critical thinking in the way fm approves of, or, for the junior staff, any way he approves of in his less formal moments.

There was a deal....You refused it...I appreciate the honesty, that you could not restrain yourself from posting to me, and have no self control to just leave me alone...But the deal was for me to link one, to shut ya up...and satisfy that ego you have, even though you would have been proven wrong, and in return I would have got what I wanted and got piece...But you wanted more than that...So you get nothing! Keep claiming I am a liar, and all that **** you said above...If it makes you feel better...

Fine, "think" I am a liar....I can deal with that just fine....but apparently your not fine with it...Or every time we fight, you would not feel the need to bring that subject back up....No?? Maybe your the one who has some dealing to do with being self-honest? Not me....

I know who said the posts...and I know roughly where every one of them are...I will not reveal them to you, because in my honesty, I do not trust you at all!

And I know you will say how little you care about how I feel...etc...

Fine! Then man up! Deal with it! Move on! Or just leave me be...

But you can't or don't...So, please stop telling me how little you care, or how unimportant you "think" I am...Or at least show that this is the way you feel! By acting like it! Not running from your cover, and trying to pounce on me....Ever so often....

Look we do not get along....I don't follow you around...So just let me be

If not...

See you around, Till the next time you attack me...

We adapt, we give up on our need to use "badges" to define every group of us. Quite simple . When we (as a species) created gods as a socializing tool we had to "buy" every piece of tripe that these gods speak through us. That I find quite tiresome and confining really. What you consider utopian, I say can be achieved through work and adaptation. Weve been trying to give up on our "Red in tooth and caw" meme, but the damned religious "nations" among us have used their personal badges to exclude others from joining or even living in closer harmony.

Be it understood, I dont really pay much attention to spendi except when he tries to go around logic to attack me personaly. (It has been a side hobby of his for several years because he just doesnt like scientists in oparticular--he feels they are not up to his defined standards of intellect). I mostly just consider the source and ignore the post. Once in a while, (like above) he just goes off his feed and gets too ridiculous for words and must at lkeast be challenged in his silly logic.

I want arguing To spenfi through you, I was attacking your own lack of ogic and your "unique" juxtapositions of faith and evidence(which are, for the most part, unattainable in either faith or evidence). Youre gonna break a rule of one or the other when applied at the same time. Your use of aliens to somehow discredit evoution went nowhere fast and you then posted several unbelievable lines regarding what evidence is or at lest is in your belief.

I use evidence in its forensic means, in that its a tool to describe, prove, and convince others through standard means of applying tests or descriptions or measurements. Youve missed the boat on that end.

Im capable of taking a subject on its own merits without engaging in verbal snowballs but, Im also capable of chucking slushies of my own, so dont worry about me. Youve got your hands more than full with others.
SOmetimes name calling is the way to end a train of thought most succinctly. SOmetimes insults are a requirement whenever the debate is in high dudgeon. IEither is vaid debate technique .

That's woffle fm. Pure and unadulterated woffle untouched by human hand. Pristine. Fabian perfection.

When you're used to going from a fin to a wing and a flagella to a foot pump I can see how you would reach such meaningless conclusions.

Willing ourselves to get a wing so to speak, as Lamark darkly hinted. Going from here to then, your perfect world, without the how of doing so or what it is we are doing or aiming at other than some utopian perfect world.

Isn't it a pity that the human race is composed of nutcases? Veblen singled out Americans for a special mention in that regard.

I've seen you do a very tiresome number of "badges" in my time on A2K.

And a reading of Veblen's special mention alongside a view of what he described in action when it has reached the lower-middle-class, or even lower down the social scale as depicted by Coronation Street, suggests that eradicating "badges" is on the same level as eradicating nasty viruses because both are capable of evolving.

Best of luck with that old boy.

That you can't see that "badges" are evolving is because you can't see what happened between the fin and the wing and the Venus of Willendorf, who is on the comeback trail. (see Reader's Wives and Fat Matures.)

You jump from A to B in the manner of a quantum leap which is, as you possibly know, a change of place without a time interval. What place means I have no idea. Do you?

So what we need are instructions regarding what sort of work and what sort of adaptations. Like an architect gives when he starts a job.

Without such instructions your post is, as I said, woffle. And crude woffle too. The "Quite simple" is out the other side of absurd.

When did I post a video about how science is getting more and more wrong? You seem to only distort everything you see to fit insight your flawed way of thinking. I'm pretty sure I know the video that your talking about and that video says nothing of the sort. It's about how we can be wrong in just about everything that we do, not that we are. We are moving in a way that will lead us to truth when we follow science, we may not follow the path to truth every time but as Thomas Edison once said "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." The video that I uploaded that you refer to is to show people that throughout history people have claimed so many things to be true that we now know to be false, the real eye opening question (I feel at least) is that what makes us different than them? Are people going to look back on 2012 hundreds if not thousands of years from now and say this is when we finally got it right? It would be beyond ignorant to make such a claim?

I would greatly disgree with theists never asking atheists to prove that god's don't exist but that another issue. Based on this sentence you have removed all sides from proving your god's existence. You say that it's neither our burden, nor yours, if that' truly the case, then who's is it? Based on past discussions, these burdens can't be lain at your god's feet because he's to...whatever excuse you decide to make up for his absence...to prove himself. So who's burden is it then? Is it my job to knock away every leg that you god can tand on until the entire facade come crashing down? Is your job to actually provide some evidence to your wild rantings? Is it your gods job to get off his fat ass and come wave hello? The burden of proof must be on someone and all logic points to you...yet here you are throwing up every smokescreen you can when people won't just bow down and take it up the ass for you and call you out on your ****.

Well we have evidence that leads us to a perfectly acceptable explaination of stigmata and if you evidence's are true then that would make the person having the experience equal to an insane person thus there testimony on the matter would be meaningless and bias do to their insanity. This hypothesis is supported by evidence, what is your claim that it's jesus supported by other than you just saying it is than plugging your eyes to all evidences of the contrary? I also dislike how you say: "When any logical brain can see it clearly points the finger directly toward Christ." What PhD's do you hold that let you make such an outrageous claim? Do you claim yourself to be more logical than the hundreds of psychologist, psychiatrists, neuroscientists, etc. who have researched this topic far more throughly than you? To claim that you are more logical than these brilliant people because you see a connection between this and the non-existant due your faith would onl make you a blind fideist. My bet would be on the latter (that you are a blind fidiest and not a world renown psychologist or something), based on all of your weak arguments thus far.

Whoops, you're showing your ignorance again, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this but your god doesn't own a monopoly on morality. There are many incentives to doing what is morally good in my eyes that do not include your god. I don't need your god to know what is right and wrong, no one does. Most people are actually better off without listening to the moral guidance that is in a majority of the bible (such as ripping apart little children for poking fun at a guy for being bald).

I had to include this seperately because it was so funny. It's funny because you always talk about how people can always be so wrong yet you always seem to be the exclusion of that. You always say it when someone is in opposition to you because you have to be the one that's right. Why is it that you can't be the one that's wrong when so many people here (who are significantly smarter than you) are stating that you are? Are you really that naive to think you're smarter than the most brilliant men who have walked the planet, let alone all the people who are calling you out here?

Why does it not make a difference? It makes a difference to me what I do in this life that I have, it makes a difference what farmerman does with his life and reasoning with his. Just because you feel your life would be meaningless without this sham, doesn't mean the rest of us feel this way. Your understanding in this is severly lacking. You should try to be more understanding of the point of view of others rather than just casting them aside. By the way, that first question isn't rhetorical but I'll rephrase so tht it is more direct. Why is it that you feel your life would be come meaningless if you found your god didn't exist? What about your life would change so significantly that would create this overwhelming since of meaninglessness? I could understand if there were a god and then he let, but if he had never been there the whole time?

No offense but this claim is so outrageous that I refuse to accept it at your word. Please present some sort of proof of this (such as a the results published in a scientific paper of something). Until such a time you present such proof I shall hold this as proof that you are a deceitful liar and will say anything to try and brainwash people. If your god really did exist and were as powerful as you claim, do you really think you would have to make such ridiculous claims and lie like this?

Do you understand the point of the god of the gaps argument? Religious people makes claims within the realm of what we do not know, scientists then do tests to try and find the natural cause for why such an event happened...and btw, we have scientific explainations of why people have these experiences...if you had watched that video like I asked you to several times a while back you would know a little something about that. Instead you choose to walk around with your head up our ass.

Self control has nothing to do with it, you puling hypocrite. If you post bullshit, i'm going to call you on it. I brought the subject up with someone else, you were the one who had to stick your nose in. You may not understand it, but not every post here is addressed to you.

Attack you? You stuck your nose into a conversation i was carrying on with someone else. Poor bay-bee . . .

I had stigmata once't . . . but i went over to the battalion aid station for some antibiotics and that **** cleared right up.

But some scientists are saying now that the use of antibiotics has created viruses with venomed fangs and that the legacy of our rushing to the aid station instead of having the patience to allow our bodies to deal with run of the mill viruses is that there are viruses coming which nothing can deal with.

A bit like the debt I suppose. The "Me,me,me" generation mortgaging the whole future.

Ive been reading further and Munchhausen Syndrome sufferers are often found to inflict injuries upon thmeselves unconsciously. Stigmata are often part of the manifestation of the syndrome. Also, most reported episodes occur in areas where "hyperpiety" occurs in entire populations and statistically higher numbers of stigmata sufferers occur.
Im skeptical because I foun d only one real report pof stigmata wheher no causes could be identified . This one can remain a mystery for now but still, is it some kind of evidence of miraculous intervention??

I oved my Jewish heritage because
1Jews couldnt care less about an "after;ife"
2Their teachings attempted to draw logic from an obviously BiPolar god of the old testament. SO everything Im aware of has a string that goes back to the Torah and rabbis will be arguing for future centuries as they try to adapt (heres that word again) to the world of the day.

FOR EXAMPLE: Kosher made mass produced Matzoh for Passover. Manischewitz and Moishe Ludig ltd produce matzo that is kosher and yet mass produced. Some rules I heard a few days ago on NPR that identified several rules that the rabbi presented to the NPR interviewer regarding the "Kosherness" of their product. For example

1 The dough must only be mixed and made by an observant jew in charge of the mixing machines.

2 The dough can only be mixed and rolled with no folding

3 Most importantly, it must be "Unleavened" SO, to insure this in an industrial bakery, The dough must be made, rolled, formed perforated and baked within 18 minutes. WHY 18 MINUTES and not anything more or less? I understand the wild yeast thing but why 18 minutes and what is the Torah's teachings on this?

4 The ovens must be kept at 600 degrees F(why 600?) seems extreme doesnt it.

ANybody hve any ideas?

Women who "suffer" false pregnancies have their abdomens swell, and even produce milk. Nevertheless, they are not in fact pregnant. One should not underestimate either the power of suggestion, or of self-delusion.

I imagine that one reason for the popularity of Christianity is that it doesn't lay down any strict bread making rules which are best left to individual ladies with the necessary witchery.

Mass produced Kosher Matzoh sounds like a misogynist version of bread and I presume tastes a bit bland and unsuitable for ploughmen's lunch sandwiches. (That's a roast ham joke.)

I assume "observant Jew" means one who has been circumcised.

I assume the 600 F. is to get the effect of the dough being exposed to it for 10 seconds. Unless it's a misprint.