Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

I totally forgot what a creepy guy "Voice of DArkness" is.

1 Corinthians 8:2
And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.

Is this an example of the blind leading the blind

If there isn't a demonstrable method that can be tested then it is not reliable. You can't just make a claim and say you don't have anything that supports it but you know it is true. Science doesn't try to explain "everything" but more than likely if science can't explain it then nothing else can either. In other words you would just be guessing or making stuff up. Religion/theology doesn't explain anything, it just says something is true without anything to back up the claim with. That isn't an explanation.

See this is what makes you contradict yourself. You try to hide by using the term reliable later to explain why you can believe in jesus and not in zeus to being real. But I don't even know what you mean here when you say jesus is more reliable.

It seems like a meaningless statement to cloak your reasoning. How can you arrive at your conclusion? Not to mention that jesus never claimed to be god in the first place.

You will have to explain what you mean by "reliable" because it doesn't make any sense to me.

Just because math or science can not explain something it doesn't mean guessing or wishful wanting is valid for claiming truth.

Your experiences are yours, they don't hold anything for actual validation for anyone else.

If someone is convinced because of "your experiences" then they are convinced by nothing at all.

I do not believe that these billions have ever had anything actually happen to them that originated from some god or gods.

If they have had actual experiences from some god, then why have I not?

This god only plays favorites?

Seems this god would know what sort of experience would convince me, yet doesn't provide that experience?

I'm still waiting. Or maybe, just maybe, those so called experiences are NOT in fact experiences from a god??

I think that is more likely the case.

Alright fair enough, yet have you considered that a huge majority of people who have claimed to have had alien obductions actually have health issues and physcological issues prior to their "obduction" stories?

A large group of claimers are known to have some form of mental illness common among their group. Strange how they all share the same health issue? Not a coincidence of course now is it?

If your experiences are what you claim they are, then good for you. However; they do absolutely nothing to convince me of your claim.

Sorry to remind you of that but why should I believe your experiences are authentic and were provided by some "god"?

Why can't you see the perspective that you are trying to push on me.

You say that you are convinced because of your experiences. That is great. I am saying I don't have those experiences so why is it, you have them and I don't?

I am not convinced by your personal experiences, and nor should I be.

Yet you keep trying to have it both ways.

I guess this god plays favorites or maybe expects the person to suspend their rational mind and just blindly believe without anything to base that belief on.

If that is the case I would never arrive at that conclusion because NOTHING in my reality expects that of me, so why start now>?

Science and math can be testable between people however; your personal experiences can not.

There is no way for me to test to see if what you claim your experience to be, to originate from some god.

Yet math and science can be tested and that is why they are not fickle but your claim "could be".

Here is the thing. There are experiences that are universally common among people with similar sense faculties. For example if you have functioning eyes, and I have functioning eyes, we can agree on... oh, the color red, for example. We can test this, by asking pick out the color red from a group of colors. You pick out what you think is red, and I do the same. More than likely unless there is a physical problem with your eyes, we will pick out the same color.

Now with your visions, this can not be done.

This test can not be done because I do not have those experiences that you claim to have.

So your experiences can not be tested to anything. Sure there might be others who claim the same thing but it is not universal. So I must ask some questions and there is only so many possible answers.

If your visions are authentic then why doesn't everyone have them?

Seems a little absurd to only grant them to a small few. Why play favorites?

Or if your visions are not authentic, then why are you claiming to have them?

Some mental illness gone undiagnosed?

Perhaps you have a very vivid imagination or want see these things and believe that you actually have?

Or flat out lying?

So which is it?

You can, and you should question anything scientific. Never said you had to blindly accept anything. However; are you in a position where you can test everything? Probably not. So it is best to put them away then and not claim anything pertaining to them until you can verify them. To do otherwise is not reasonable.

Male cow feces. Eyes aren't open? You mean in other words I have to suspend my rational mind and just blindly accept them to be true.

Or you have to explain what "eyes open" means. Otherwise it is just more non-sense. But ONCE again, if there was a god, that god would precisely KNOW what sort of experience to give me.

It wouldn't just give me some vague experience that I might confuse with something else.

If it does give some vague experience that I could mistake for something else, then it is not doing a very good job at it. It would know what would convince me, yet still has not done it. Why?

Take the steps? What steps? You mean once again, suspend my rational mind? Just blindly accept something is true without anything to validate it?

Why? When NOTHING in this reality expects that I do that, should I do that for this one thing?

It is silly. If there is a god, it would know what sort of experience would convince me, so why hasn't it?

They gave up? Since you say something like that convinces me that you were never actually an atheist.

Sure you might have been a non practicing theist but I doubt you were skeptical of theology and then all of a sudden convinced by some experience.

I bet it was the other way around. You always believed there was a god but never did anything about it until you had this so called experience, and then you attributed this experience coming from a god.

Why would I suggest this being the case? Because an atheist would have understood what I meant, yet you respond by saying they gave up. No a skeptic doesn't give up and just accept something, doesn't work that way.

Nope, because I have had similar experiences with this issue. If a person is so convinced by their experience, that they claim it originated from a god, but later recant it and say it was only their wishful thinking, that is their claim.

But I would have to ask, why did they think it was from a god and then turn around later and say it wasn't.

That is what I am explaining. Sure their statements are still anecdotal, but what would compel someone to do that then?

Just to lie?

They wouldn't need to lie about it. There would be no incentive to lie about it.

Yeah you could make that case but it really doesn't put them anywhere. If they were fooling themselves or lying to themselves or others it wouldn't actually change the fact.

So what would you call a person who never had faith to begin with yet claims to be a theist?

Seems a little odd, what would motivate them to do that? If they believe a god exists, then they are a theist. Faith is easy to come by, it is just simply believing something is true without anything to base it on.

Here is the thing, if it is true what you say above then that god is beyond wicked.

Wrong! this is your OWN forbased conclusions on something you have never experienced, and do not even believe faithful ones of his who say it is blissful! How can you be CERTAIN he is beyond wicked???

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First of all, the god starts off by not revealing itself in any testable way. Then on top of that expects certain behavior or else it will punish you for not doing so?

It is gonna be different than people think!

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And you accept this as being reasonable? You think it is perfectly fine for a god to expect certain behavior yet never actually substantiate itself?

If the end result is what I see it as...then yes...

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I don't think you would be interested because you didn't like my last explanation of your experiences. You took offense to my explanations. Which is very telling, because if you actually had them, you wouldn't feel threatened by my disbelief.

I have them, and You would not believe they were false like you said, if you did not debate back and forth with me...Or sway me toward skeptacism!

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You honestly think this is a good example? Well to explain that very simple experience I will have to mention evolution. We evolved from other animals, and those animals relied on being aware of their surroundings to avoid preditors. We still have this in us however it is not as hightened as it is in other animals because over time we had fewer and fewer preditors so there was no need for us to maintain this ability. Now we have these senses but they are retarded and trigger randomly giving us the impression that someone is watching us.

Is this proven 100% accurate??

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We have tested this phenomina in the lab and just about everyone responds in the same way. Not only that but there are also cases when people are exposed to toxic substances, who also trigger these dormate traits and who also feel they are surrounded by invisible beings. As soon as they get treated for their exposure the problem goes away. Very similar cases happen with soldiers who have had traumatic war experiences. They will also have this turned on because war training and combat trauma tend to utilize this survival instinct because we are still animals weather we want to admit it or not.

Does this mean that these experiences and ones like it, are bullshit? and means the people have toxic substances in them? All of them??

If there isn't a demonstrable method that can be tested then it is not reliable. You can't just make a claim and say you don't have anything that supports it but you know it is true. Science doesn't try to explain "everything" but more than likely if science can't explain it then nothing else can either. In other words you would just be guessing or making stuff up. Religion/theology doesn't explain anything, it just says something is true without anything to back up the claim with. That isn't an explanation.

That is what you gather, But people who have experiences (I will explain below, since you pointed it out about 5 times) see it differently, to the point where It does not equate to a demonstrable method...But it is reliable as well...If you think that it is unreliable because your science and math say this...Than I disagree with that concept....

Example: We did not need math and science back in Hominid days...And we can use them now, and today to equate evolution...But we were so primitive...Scientist was first coined in 1834....So obviously, If we evolved from hominids it does not require a demonstrable method to survive...It is a luxury of the process of where we are in evolution...So much so, we question anything and everything....Even a creator, if real....

It is simple, I will explain it...If a God is real...It makes sense there is one, and only one...If you would like me to break it down even smaller I will...But out of all of the existences of God(s) Jesus is the most reliable...Meaning the most plausible of them all...More than Zeus, Krishna, Buddha, Allah, Inzanoge, Inznome, Confucious, Lao-Tzu etc...

anyone who sees god will perish.

So much so, we question anything and everything....Even a creator, if real....

My Grandmother saw her brother at the end of her bed when she was sick, this "spirit" of a brother went "no" and vanished.

I have experienced this also you may claim seeing "god" I will say you are WRONG, it's that you can not see a "spirit".. I can state more and I will but the bottom line is, if that is in the Bible? Then again I've known that without reading it.... Having experienced it, nothing scientific about that. Reality and proof.

OUCH@!!

My eyes !!!! That's way long to read Smile

What is it that you mean by that comment? Are you suggesting that I may be blindly leading Spades by my explanation of how we can get things wrong at times or do you mean something entirely different?