Sometimes the s sound comes out as sounding like z when one is speaking.
For instance, my first name ends in an s sound, but my birth surname began with a z sound.
very inconvenient, as it made my 2 names slur together, knocking out the s sound completely, making people think my first name was an entirely different name.
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fresco
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Sat 27 Aug, 2011 10:10 am
@oristarA,
In English there is a phonological rule operating whereby a voiced consonant causes voicing of a subsequent written consonant "s" to phonetic /z/. (Note "books"=/buks/ but "bugs"=/bugz/ because /k/ is unvoiced whereas /g/ is voiced. )
NB In German (for example) this rule does not operate. In fact an opposite variant can occur such that a final "d" becomes devoiced to /t/ (as in "hund" =/hunt/. )
In English there is a phonological rule operating whereby a voiced consonant causes voicing of a subsequent written consonant "s" to phonetic /z/. (Note "books"=/buks/ but "bugs"=/bugz/ because /k/ is unvoiced whereas /g/ is voiced. )
Thanks.
I knew that rule, however.
The question remains (because s follows a vowel here):
The question might very well be , how do you pronounce "bow"? Is it supposed to be like performing an obesiance to a queen, in which case it is pronounced the same as"bough". But that is also a verb that generally someone themselves does, not something that one makes something else do which is how it's used in that sentence. Better, if this is what the author intended, is to say "makes the heart bow". If it's supposed to be metaphorically like distorting something, like a bow being bent to shoot an arrow, it's pronounced like that instrument. Or it could be bowing the heart like bowing a violin, playing upon it..
In either case, the usage is strange.
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fresco
1
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Sun 28 Aug, 2011 02:58 am
@oristarA,
Good point.
Since there is no phonetic word /bows/(devoiced final "s"), we might argue for voicing as the phonemic default mode after "o". Devoicing only seems to operate in cases of disambiguation such as "close"(verb -voiced) versus "close" (adjective-devoiced). But the situation is complicated by the fact that such a rule would not operate when "bow" is pronounced as in "bough"...consider "louse" for example, which requires no disambiguation So it is indeed a difficult question for a non-native speaker.
Such are the joys of phonology !
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oristarA
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Sun 28 Aug, 2011 06:49 am
Thank you for replying.
But you've missed the point.
What I want to know is how to pronounce "s" in "bows" (the verb "bow" in its monopersonal form). Or how to pronounce "s" in any verb in its monopersonal form when the verb is ended with a vowel in its pronunciation. For example:
The stone bears two words: Love and (the other is missing). How to read the "s" in "bears?" "z" or "s"?
Bearz, unfortunately, there's no hard and fast rule. Not only that, different pronounciations of the same word exist throughout the English speaking countries. Take tomato, Americans tend to say tomayto, we English are supposed to say tomahto, but I've always said termar'er. Then again, I'm dead rough.
Bearz, unfortunately, there's no hard and fast rule. Not only that, different pronounciations of the same word exist throughout the English speaking countries. Take tomato, Americans tend to say tomayto, we English are supposed to say tomahto, but I've always said termar'er. Then again, I'm dead rough.
Thank you!
When bear serves as noun (an animal), how to read bears? Bears?
Three bears chased Jack, who, luckily, was the champion of distance race in his university.
Z,Z,Z,Z. IT'S Z. Thinking of a few examples, I'd say that since vowels are obviously voiced, if a noun ends in a vowel the plural will also be voiced, z, rather than s.
Consider canoe, haha (a garden feature),Minnesota, sofa, trophy. All their plurals are voiced z. Same with bow.
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JTT
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Sun 28 Aug, 2011 01:05 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Three bears chased Jack, who, luckily, was the champion of distance race in his university.
Jack's speed didn't save him/could never save him , Ori, if these were Black or Grizzly/Brown bears and they were intent on catching him.
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chai2
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Sun 28 Aug, 2011 02:33 pm
orister, you can't really make something like this fit into a ironclad rule.
It depends on where you are from, what country, what region in a country.
For instance, below is a classic skit from a Saturday Night Live show.
Starting at second 32 to secod 36, the actors are exagerating a U.S. Midwest/Chigao accent.
Instead of saying, "the Bearz" which is Chicago's football team, they say "Da Bearssss"
The pronunciation changes with your accent, with the words around it, even how fast your speaking.
If you were speaking slowly and enunciating, you would more likely say "s".
If you talking fast, more likely it comes out as "z"
On the side, you'll note in the skit they say "Da" (pronounced duh) instead of "the". That's regional too, not correct, but it's the way a lot of people speak. It's not classroom english, but real life.
That's regional too, not correct, but it's the way a lot of people speak. It's not classroom english, but real life.
These old canards sure do stick, don't they?
Of course it's correct, Chai, just as gonna/hafta/wanna are all correct. Everyone, except robots, slurs their speech is systematic ways.
"classroom English" isn't any more correct than any other register of English. We turn these registers off and on depending on the, ... register required for the situation.
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oristarA
1
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Sun 28 Aug, 2011 05:25 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
On the side, you'll note in the skit they say "Da" (pronounced duh) instead of "the". That's regional too, not correct, but it's the way a lot of people speak. It's not classroom english, but real life.
My dicts tell me "duh" sounds the same as the word "do." Is that correct?
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