I HAVE A CONFESSION!!

Gracie, just because one asks a question, doesn't mean the other is going to answer.

It doesn't matter what I think, and I'm not anyones mother.

I haven't been giving you motherly advice, and I'm not going to start, because I have none.

Doesn't mean I don't like you Gracie, but this is a conversation you need to be having with your father, as everyone has said.

Okay. Fine. But what you think matters to me chai. I didnt want 'motherly advice', just your opinion.

Hi, Gracie,
You seem like such a nice girl!

I read along a bit on this thread, I've been thinking on some of the things said here.

Sometimes I have questions for people that I would love to ask and I'd love honest answers.
(this is so not about chai not answering your question)

But the results aren't always that simple. Some people don't have the answer for you. Some of your questions can't be answered. Whatever the reasons, sometimes you don't get an answer.

And sometimes you get the answer that you don't want.

What I find myself doing now is asking myself why do I need the answer? And is the person I'm asking capable of giving me an answer? And what does it change for me when I get an answer or if I get no answer? Does any of it change me and how I'm living?

I don't know if this makes sense or not. It's just been something I've been thinking about lately.

I'm understanding you, Caribou.

I've been quiet on Gracie's thread here.

As you know, I also said ask your father, re a2k stuff.

He may not be ready yet. Don't pester him, give him room.

Hi caribou! Thank you!

It totally makes sense and I get what you're saying. Those are good things to ask myself before I just start questioning other people. (It would've been great if I'd done that with chai. LoL. Now I think she's annoyed with me.)
But it's different when the person I'm asking questions is my dad, and the questions are about my mom.

I should know about my mom. I was too young to remember her or even have the slightest idea of what happened with her and my dad so my dad is the only one who can tell me and its unfair of him to keep it from me. Finding out somethings about my mom or even finding her could change everything.

Im not asking my dad tons of questions about my mom to hurt him or make him upset or anything. And I'm not trying to be whiny about my mom leaving either. I know that lots of kids grow up with only one parent and things could be worse for me but even though my dad's awesome and I love him and everything I still wanna know about her and why she left.

Why did my mom leave? Why didn't she love me enough to stay? Why hasn't she tried to see me? Is there a chance that she might wanna see me? I think those are pretty fair questions that I deserve an answer to. I know that you're saying that sometimes people can't give you honest answers or there are no answers to some questions but that's not true for my dad. He does have answers to my questions, and he can give them to me, it's just that, for whatever reason, he wont.

I'll talk to him, really talk to him, sometime when he's not working next week and ask him some things about mom. Lissa'll do it with me too so that should help. But I wont keep bothering him about it. If he doesn't tell me anything this time, I'll be disappointed , maybe a little angry, but I'll leave him alone about it.

In case you didn't see this in your forgiveness thread...


This is especially for you, Gracie:

Gracie, I'm not annoyed at you.
Caribou's post pretty much explains it.

If I were to say one more thing about your quest, I would say:

Take the words "fair", "unfair" and "I deserve" out of all of this.

These words often conflict with what others think of as fair, unfair or what they deserve for themselves, and never the twain shall meet.

Oh, also in your case, avoid the use of the word "just", as in "I just want to" or "I just think that..."

You're (perhaps) unconsciously (maybe not) using "I just want to" to make it seem like what you want to know is such an easy thing for someone else to give.

I think this is all I have to say on the subject.

Thanks Butrflynet.!
Sorry Im soo late!
I liked the video! I'll keep what they said in mind. The music gave me chills though!

Thanks Chai, and Im glad you're not annoyed with me. I really like when you give me advice even though I don't agree with you all the time. You've been a big help, kinda helped me see that this is alot more complicated than I first thought it was. I'll take your advice, it's good advice.

Thanks!

`Alrighty then..

Im very late to this parade, but this thread was brought to my attention and after reading it I cant help but reply.


Let me start with two things.

1) I gave up my daughter when I was 19

2) I say it like it is, and if it is offensive I will just give one sweeping apology now, and a fair warning...... I will not speak or sound like everyone else, and if I am TOO straight forward...well.. sorry. .. this is a delicate subject and what I say will most assuredly offend SOMEONE but that is not my intention.

anyway..


First and foremost, the more I read of someone saying " why didnt my parent love me enough to stay" the more I want to rail at the screen.

What kids do NOT know is that parents HAVE to give a **** about their child to make that decision. we HAVE to love you to KNOW that we can not provide for you , and for you to think that the ONLY show of love is to drag you through a life that we as adults know is not best for you, then you need to learn what love is, and you will with time and more life experience.

It is NOT a choice of simple convenience to say " hey you...stranger.. yeah you.. take my baby please" . Even the crack head mother, who is so addicted to a drug that she may have killed someone to get it...has sat with that decision for nine months. We mothers do not make that decision over night, and we birth mothers do not walk away from yall with out a second thought. Please do not make our reasons for adoption so selfish. Our decisions are ALL about you and no one else and until you have kids, you really will not get that. And that is ok I didnt get it.... hell, i still dont get it and I have another child now.

But you also have to realize, from a very technical point of view, as a birth mom I myself will NOT contact my daughter until she is legal age. Why? Because that is part of the agreement i made when I gave her up and I could face charges ( though hard to accomplish, quite a stretch but still a possibility) if i were to cross that boundry. Children are not able to make those kinds of decisions and neither are the birth moms until you kids reach 18. THEN , you are legal and an adult. Before then the law says you can not make such an emotional decision with out an adult and we have to respect that.

But above that... contacting you will only make your sense of self skewed. You have grown up with a family outline that did not include me, so who am i to think i can just walk in and change that? I know that is your fantasy world, but honey..that would be absolutely rude of her or any birth mother to do. You children are not toys we have handed over to someone to watch while we race off to have a wonderful free life. It doesnt work that way.

Please remember that. Do not look at birth mothers as these women who are only looking for a simple life free of responsibility as if we dont care about you. You children are parts of our bodies and just like anything else, you are an extension of us, only walking free. we remember you and on some level, we all love you.

Until you are crying so hard you can do nothing but throw up over that kind of a decision... you cant understand.

You are never forgotten, but you are not our child. Can you understand that? Honestly? And can you really REALLY understand how painful that realization is? ... no. I know you can not, but I wish you would take the time to look at things through another set of eyes.
Just because you were born to us, does not make you our mandatory devotion. I dont know if I can explain this easily .. so I just have to write it as it is, and it sounds abrasive...

Yes. Birth moms ARE your 'mom' by dictionary definition, that can not be denied. We made you, we gave birth to you...we are your mom. But we are not your mother.
A mother is a person who makes daily decisions based on what she knows of you to help you grow, change and learn. A mother is someone who is actively IN your life and has devoted her life TO you. A mother is someone who cares enough about your well being to sacrifice her own to ensure your safety, happiness and security on a regular basis. These are decisions, actions and lessons she does every day. Not just once in her life like a birth mother had to.... but EVERY day..
THAT is a mother...

giving birth to you does not make any woman a 'mother' beyond being the vessel in which you were carried. This does not remove her importance in your life nor does it make her any less of a woman, that is just the truth. Any woman can give birth, that is how we are made.....but not all women can be a real mother just like not all men can be a real father. There can be a ton of reasons for that too.

To say she didnt love you enough to stay..and putting that rule out there as the ONLY way she could have loved you is denying yourself and romanticizing a decision you have no concept of.
Until you are solely responsible for your entire life ...finances...clothing..roof..food...friends..bills..etc, you will not understand the variables that fall into peoples lives. You will not GET that making a life for someone is not always and only about love and it is not always decisions that make people feel happy. It really isnt. It is about what you can and can not do when it comes to kids and making the decision to go the adoption route...plus many other things. So many that I could not begin to list them all. The combinations, the reasons and the possibilities are absolutely endless.

As a kid myself ....i was 19 and scared to death that I could not provide for my child. Not to mention I didnt WANT to be a parent . She was a condom baby. At 19 I thought condoms were fool proof. Bah! I was the fool
But I knew this, waaaayyyy down in my core, I knew I didnt want to be a parent, and I was aware enough of my self and my limits that I knew as a mother I was going to give her a really bad life.
I was afraid that I would teach her that she was unwanted because I was afraid she would pick up on my desire to be child less.
I knew....at 19.. i still had many years of stupid under my belt to go and I was scared of how she would be dragged through that.
I was afraid that I could not get a real job to support her. I was homeless for a few years before I got pregnant, did not graduate high school and the only long term job I had at that point was slinging dope. I was an idiot child with enough of a brain to know what i COULD NOT do and that was support a child.

If I didnt love her, I would not have made that decision. I could have randomly left her at a church, or taken a ton of drugs and not cared about her well being, I could have done a plethora of other things.. But even that statement is not fair , as I have had an abortion since then and again..it was not from a place of being incapable of or lacking love.. I just know what I can and can not do. Not many people can be that clear with themselves.

But you really need to remove YOU from this equation and I do not know that you know how to do that yet. Not that you are stupid, not at all.. it is just that you do not have the experience yet in life to really GET that statement. I have no doubt that statment makes sense to you, but you wont GET it.

Adoption is not a choice due to lack of love or caring.
Adoption is not a choice made for an easy out
Adoption is not easy.
Adoption IS all about you...

believe me.....YOU ... have it easy in this equation. Do not turn it on her and judge her as someone who has a lack of caring because she left. Not all people CAN parent the way a child deserves and it is not fair to force the idea on her and say she doesnt love you because she did that.

Really sit with that for a while and think about things from another perspective. The possibilities are endless .....and not all are about you in the way you are projecting.

I absolutely understand how you are feeling. My dad walked out on me as a child choosing to be a drunk instead of getting to know me. Even now, 35 years later he is so close to me in my life that he could very easily extend his hand and say Hi. But he doesnt and there are days I wonder what in the world I did, why he didnt love my mother, and why he does not feel an empty hole because I am not there. And then I realize that is making MYSELF important to SOMEONE else just so I can validate my feelings. And I do not have to do that. I can feel abandoned, angry, lonely..etc .. and not have to attempt to push self importance on someone else just to feel as though what I am going through is valid. His decision was about me.... in that he couldnt afford me and alcohol so he removed me from his pocketbook and in a really fucked up way, that was the BEST thing he could have done. I

I know he is still a drunk today, his children totaling I think 13. I have chatted with some of them. Some have been around him and know him, some still have him in their life and out of all of them, I am the only one he never did anything for. Ever.

I get that feeling of 'why me'. I get the feeling of " if you loved me enough...." and I also understand feeling like the outcast because of it. I mean, EVERY other child of his got t be in his life.. but not me. What? have I got a booger or something? What the hell is wrong with ME that HE doesnt care? Yeah honey...I get it. I hear you.

please...please...PLEASE.. dont read this as a slam on you, an insult or as someone who is standing over you shaking their finger in your face.
I would start bawling right now if it were not for my 'new' daughter who is just 10 feet from me. She is my boyfriends daughter and just as much mine as anyone else in my family. I adore her. And yet.. here I sit describing to someone else why I chose to not keep my first child. Talk about torment. I hope my daughter never thinks that I dont think about her, or judge myself harshly because of my decision. I think about her every day.

Your mother thinks about you. It is impossible not to, trust me on that.

but you do not know the reasons behind her decision so please dont project.
She may NOT want to see you. She may NOT want to meet you. She may be feeling like she was a failure for doing what she did. She may be embarrassed, she may be addicted to something too. She is a human with emotions equivalent to yours, dont strip that from her because you are upset that you do not have an answer.

please..please.. dont look at this the way you are.

I know it is hard...it is a concept that you can only understand but not really get because you have not lived it yet. So please try to understand and some how find some peace in that.

At 18, you can walk right up to her house and get the answers you want and need. That is just around the corner.

What a profound message that is.

(((((HUGS)))))

Life is hard, and it is complicated, and it is deep. You have put it into words that are strong and beautiful. Just like you. I hope it makes sense to Gracie, and I think a lot of it will. I believe she is the kind of person who will grow into a strong woman someday, too.

im pretty sure she will get it .
The last thing she is , is dumb . She catches on to things quickly and understands more than she should at her age.

i just hope a new perspective helps her

Hi Shewolfnm! Its okay that you're late. I like when people reply to my thread, late or not. No worries. (Im late in responding. Sorry about that. ) I read what you said a couple times before I replied because at first I didnt really know what to say. You totally made me cry and what you said is probably something Im gonna remember for a really long time Shewolfnm. Thank you soo much, really! I soo wanna give you a big hug right now! You said some stuff that I didnt wanna hear, stuff that kinda hurt my feelings alittle but you were being honest and it made me understand a ton of stuff that I didnt realize before. You get both sides of it. You're dad wasnt there for you, and you had to give up your own daughter, like my mom left me. So your like the only person here who really getshow it feels and your the only one who kinda helped me see what it was probably like for my mom because its something that you had to do too. That was really nice of you to tell me about some stuff that happened with you and your dad and giving up your baby. I know it cant be easy to talk about and I know it probably hurt you. Im sorry, and I want you to know that it reallymeans alot to me and that I think your really awesome, and cool, and smart and strong. I hope that you get to meet your daughter someday when the time is right (If that's something you want), and when/if I get to meet my mom, I'll remember what you told me here. And I'd be really really happy if she turns out to be like you. I think your a really great person Shewolf (awesome name! ) and I hope your daughter can see that.




Thanks a ton SheWolf! You've given me the best advice I've ever gotten and that really means alot to me and I'll never forget what you said. I've gotten some really great advice from some really great people here and I hope this website is still here when I turn 18 so that I can look back on everything everyone told me.You guys are really amazing and you dont know how awesome it is for me to be able to go to a place where I can talk about all this stuff and hear what you guys think and all your advice and stuff. My family hates talking about ANYTHING like this and it sucks when I have to keep everything to myself. It just makes everything worse. Thanks for making me feel better and understand some of this stuff and for being awesome and nice and great SheWolf and EVERYONE!

GoodNight! You're the best!

(Actually its 12 something in the morning and I have to be up for school at, like 6 so I was supposed to be asleep a looong time ago! )

(sigh)



Now, what was the point of a comment like that, especially on a thread like this? Are you really that much of a butthead?


My 'Ignore' lists just keeps on growing....

Thanks Eva! That means alot coming from you!

dont worry. You never said anything offensive in this thread at all. What made me want to argue and made me uncomfortable is that the only info and only advice you were getting was to go to your dad as if he was 'willing' to discuss this with you. Frankly, if he WAS willing, you would not have had to post here.
Not to mention, your dad is a good one side source...but one side of any issue is never enough. He can only speak from his experience and his emotions which means his answer, no matter how hard he will or will not try with be spotted with the impact her action had on him and that is not a complete story.

It is sort of like when you and your friends get into an argument. THEY see that YOU did something to them first...and you dont even know it. And YOU see THEM as doing something, and they dont know it. One side of any situation is never complete..

If you were to hear the story of my daughters adoption from MY mother for example, it sounds much different then what was really going on. Why? Because , just like your dad...the one place she can come from that is honest for HER is how the event felt and the impact it left on her life. She wants to think that I am 'lost' at times... that if I were only christian it would make a difference, that I would change, that I would be 'whole'... And I pity her for that outlook on life. It is so encompassing and so minimal that NOTHING in life fits in that mold. especially not me. Religion is only a PART of who people are, it does not make them whole. My mother does not seem to understand that. And that is ok.

Even if i were a christian, I would still have given her up, and I would have still run off as quickly as I could from her because that was the right thing to do. Even if i were a christian now, it would not ease how I feel nor would it help her. Because that is my moms opinion and outlook, her answers come from there only. Im sure at some point she has even told my daughter that I am 'lost' and that she shouldnt worry.. I would some how 'find the light'. So now my daughter has an incorrect image of me, and a thought process about me that has nothing TO DO with me.. because her only source is my mom. ( Yes they talk. they are in each others lives and she knows who I am ) She will be in for a real alteration of her opinion of me when she meets me because she was set up for something and someone ENTIRELY different than who I am .

So, taking what I explained above, remember that your dad is just like my mom. He is only about to speak about YOUR mom from his experiences because he does not live in her head. He has no idea the REAL reason because he has no way of knowing what she was thinking. Even if she were honest at the time to him about leaving, she has thought about things and experienced things since then and has changed.

Im not saying lose how you feel, or change your outlook, im simply trying to let you know that not everything is very cut and dry. I would hope that your mom made a decision like I did..one that was THOUGHT out and really was good for everyone involved.

There are women out there, and fathers too... hell even grand parents, aunts , uncles... you name it..but there are people out there who walk away from children in their lives just out of spite. People who really DO NOT care and do not want to be in a childs life. We cant deny those kinds of assholes exist. I truly truly hope that is not the situation with your mom. Im afraid it is the situation with my dad. Literally... I speak to his brother, and about 6 of his kids on a daily basis. HE COULD talk to me. HE KNOWS im around. HE KNOWS who I am. HE COULD get my phone number.

Instead ,he remains a drunk who is always almost homeless, and making babies constantly. He is worthless to many people, including me. He is the type of ass who walks away for selfish reasons. I mean, seriously... he HONESTLY left because he could not afford his alcohol AND me.. so he left ME, not alcohol. Yeah, there are people like that.I hope that isnt your mother...but please do not forget that it is a possibility. And I only say that because if you stay aware of that horrible possibility, it may hurt less if and when you learn it may be truth. Does that make sense? If you spend a lot of time thinking all will be lovely, and she will be happy, and your life will be better, and you will find a perfectly happy family... you are possibly setting yourself up for some serious pain. Im not saying dwell on it, im not saying that is all you can expect, but right now ...since there is no other way to confirm... dont pass it off . We as humans can create our own emotional buffers and we do not even know it. Staying aware of all aspects is part of that buffer that can help tremendously.

Im glad that I did not offend you. I was truly worried that I would because I was coming from such an extremely different place then you were, I was not sure what I would say was going to make much sense.

But do know that it is OK to be selfish and OK to think about why your mom does not want to talk to you. It is OK to think that she is horrible, wrong, or some how really messed in the head because she left you. It is OK to think that she SHOULD have stayed and been the mom for you. Being selfish like that is OK....hell, it is MORE than ok, it is truth. People SHOULD take the time to really think about a child before they have one. And I do not care HOW people feel about this, but we ARE able to have abortions for those who can not do it, we ARE able to adopt out children when we can not handle things and we are free to take and use birth control. We have many ways to buffer our lives and PREPARE for children. We as a society need to stop shaming people for making those decisions. Having a baby is a BIG decision and those who make that decision should be responsible enough to maintain and take care of that child. You are not wrong for being angry at her for not doing that for you. She made you, it is expected that she care for you. Please dont think I am telling you not to feel that way.

Im just letting you know though, as a woman, as a mother..as a human.. there are many aspects and may reasons. Keep your emotions, but dont expect what YOU feel to be the only option.


and yes,the laws suck. It does not sound like your mom and dad did a formal adoption at all, or that she signed over all rights. It sounds like she just up and left. So I do not know if being 18 really applies to your situation. BUT....you do not know what discussions your parents had either... that seems like a slippery slope in your case and may not really apply.

This is why I love a2k.