American girl in Italy, 60 years later

@wandeljw,

wandeljw wrote:

Why would it sound foolish?

Because you would be trying to speak from authority about a subject on which you have no authority. If you have no experience with daily life in Italy in the 1950s, then how can you state that anything looks like it?

It might look like your idea of that life, based off of other images/videos/stories to which you've been exposed. But do you have a way to measure the authenticity of those second- or third-hand sources?

wandeljw wrote:

And how would it compare to Chai's? (since that was the context of your question)

I'd say that Chai probably has more experience interpreting people's expressions than you have with life in 1950s Italy.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

wandeljw wrote:
Why would it sound foolish?

Because you would be trying to speak from authority about a subject on which you have no authority. If you have no experience with daily life in Italy in the 1950s, then how can you state that anything looks like it?

It might look like your idea of that life, based off of other images/videos/stories to which you've been exposed. But do you have a way to measure the authenticity of those second- or third-hand sources?

wandeljw wrote:
And how would it compare to Chai's? (since that was the context of your question)

I'd say that Chai probably has more experience interpreting people's expressions than you have with life in 1950s Italy.

I lived in Germany in the 1950's. I am familiar with the look of European streets and fashion in the 1950's (I mention this, because for me, that was the photo's main attraction). I have had lifelong contact with Europeans and feel familiar with European culture.

We all have experience interpreting people's faces. The look of the woman in the photo was described as "one of joy." I previously stated that "look of joy" would be an exaggeration. "Scared shitless" is also an exaggeration. To me, the woman's expression looks bland.

What does your experience tell you about the woman's expression?

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

I'd say she looks defensive, worried, and scared.

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

roger wrote:

And "Scared Shitless" is clearly a figure of speech. So what?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Well, there you go! There is no point to the whole a2k pile on, so why persue it?

2 Replies

@roger,

Actually, there is a point to it.

There are social costs that should be factored in before one decides on a course of behavior, if one cares about how one is perceived.

Some members don't appear care about those social costs (H2O_Man kinda springs to mind).

Some members attempt to give the appearance of not caring (Hawkeye).

Most members do care, however, at least to some extent.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Wait a week and reread what you just wrote. You might discover that it neither answers nor explains anything.

1 Reply

@roger,

What, that I was offended at Wandel's tone and decided to call him on it?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

What, that I was offended at Wandel's tone and decided to call him on it?

What was my tone and how did I fare with being "called on it?"

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

Quote:

I'd say that Chai probably has more experience interpreting people's expressions than you have with life in 1950s Italy.

As Roger mentioned, conjecture, conjecture and conjecture.

0 Replies

@roger,

roger wrote:

There is no point to the whole a2k pile on

I'll beg to differ. No "pile-on". I've been reading along through the weekend. I thought the majority of posters were quite restrained, given the provocation.

Definitely points to be made by various posters though I'm fairly sure they aren't appreciated by some. I think readers who might come along at some later point will appreciate that there were men and women who did not let jw's comments stand without response - at the onset of the thread and later.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

roger wrote:
There is no point to the whole a2k pile on

I'll beg to differ. No "pile-on". I've been reading along through the weekend. I thought the majority of posters were quite restrained, given the provocation.

Definitely points to be made by various posters though I'm fairly sure they aren't appreciated by some. I think readers who might come along at some later point will appreciate that there were men and women who did not let jw's comments stand without response - at the onset of the thread and later.

What specific comments of jw required a vital response?

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

vital response?

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

That future generations would appreciate?

2 Replies

@wandeljw,

Would you say that your comments stand up to that scrutiny? (Important enough that future generations will appreciate them?)

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

wandeljw wrote:

What was my tone and how did I fare with being "called on it?"

http://able2know.org/topic/176187-3#post-4705952

IMO, your tone was patronizing and invalidating. You did not react well to being called on it. You became defensive and even more invalidating. (Calling people "hysterical," e.g.)

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Would you say that your comments stand up to that scrutiny? (Important enough that future generations will appreciate them?)

No.

EhBeth thinks people will look on this thread and appreciate responses to my comments.

0 Replies

@aidan,

Ha! Aidan - y0u work in a prison! Your creepability factor must be almost zero Wink

Seriously though - the whole point of this endless cycling was started because Wandel expressed the opinion that interpreting the picture in a manner other than his interpretation was 'wrong' (which he's since modified to 'significantly less valid') - that's all I've been calling him on.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

wandeljw wrote:
What was my tone and how did I fare with being "called on it?"

http://able2know.org/topic/176187-3#post-4705952

IMO, your tone was patronizing and invalidating. You did not react well to being called on it. You became defensive and even more invalidating. (Calling people "hysterical," e.g.)

I did not react well to Setanta characterizing my concern for Arella and Chai's personal feelings as "shitty and patronizing."

2 Replies

@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

Ha! Aidan - y0u work in a prison! Your creepability factor must be almost zero

Seriously though - the whole point of this endless cycling was started because Wandel expressed the opinion that interpreting the picture in a manner other than his interpretation was 'wrong' (which he's since modified to 'significantly less valid') - that's all I've been calling him on.

No. I didn't say other than my opinion, but rather other than the intent of the photographer and model.

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@DrewDad,

Quote:

IMO, your tone was patronizing and invalidating.

Precisely, DD. Note the operative three letters, "IMO".

Read Chai's initial posting. She had the facts.

From MacMillan:

==============
hysterical - adjective
* behaving in an uncontrolled way because you are extremely excited, afraid, or upset
* reacting to something in an unreasonable way
*extremely funny

=======================

IMO, all three definitions fit Chai's behavior in at least some fashion.

I think a lot of anally retentive individuals have seized on this one definition of 'hysterical',

"suffering from the medical condition of hysteria",

specifically as it has historically been related to women and they feel that they have to make a political/moral statement with the appropriate rectitude.

1 Reply

American girl in Italy, 60 years later

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