The Horror of Hate Crimes

@BillRM,

Blacks are more likely to be caught, and get more harsh penalties when they are, because our government is racist.

OOPS. We are not suppesed to mention that are we....I suppose that the cops will be at my door in a few.

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@hawkeye10,

Well hate crimes laws was passed with good intentions and in the minds of the lawmakers I am sure were aim at KKK racist type people.

However these laws had been on the books long enough for us to see the harm is greater then the benefits and tend to increase groups tensions and harm some of the very groups members that they was written to protect.

If when walking down the street I am assaulted by a man of color I do not care if he did so because of a deep hates of all white men or to get my wallet or perhaps a combination of the two.

He should be punished to the same degree no more and no less then if my attacker was a white man for his criminal misdeeds.

After all he have every right to hate all white men if he care to, however he does not have a right to assault me for any reason and that is all the law should be concern about.

To do otherwise is to open one hell of a can of worms for little or no benefit.

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@hawkeye10,

You know Hawkeye hate crimes and how you define it is an interesting can of worms indeed.

Say tomorrow morning I am walking to my gym with my gym bag over one shoulder and listening to my mp3 player at peace with the world.

A black gentleman who I never seen before coming in the other direction out of the blue yell you white mother @#$%$ to me and I ended up on the sidewalk with a broken mp3 player and a few teeth.

Now is this a racial hate crime or not?

The back story being that his wife of many years had just let him for a white man that looks somewhat like me and he lost it when I smile at him in passing.

Somehow I see no reason to tied up the courts with how many angels can dance on the head of a pin kind of a question in is this given the yell racist slur before the attack a hate crime or not.

The crime is assault with or without the racial slur.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

You know Hawkeye hate crimes and how you define it is an interesting can of worms indeed.

So, try citing a specific bias crime law--the exact law as it is worded--and then you will know how to define it.

You think the law is whatever you presume it to be? Laughing

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

So, try citing a specific bias crime law--the exact law as it is worded--and then you will know how to define it.

You think the law is whatever you presume it to be?

Yes dear those laws are clearly written so tightly there is no room at all for prosecutors to play games with what is or is not a hate crime.

Lord you are being very dishonest as always with such silly claims as such laws are not and can not be so written tightly given that it all revolve around not deeds but the state of mind of human beings. My wife may be able to read my mind however mind readers still tends to be in short supply.

You are once more seeing crazy results under hate crime laws such as charging a member of a group with a hate crime against his own group for criminal misdeeds.

For every white KKK member who is charge with a hate crime there are many more teenagers who where acting out of simple stupidity not hate who is being charge with such crimes.

Hell a black gentleman who tends to only rob whites is a simple robber and a white person who is in the middle of a fight that cries out racist slurs to his black adversary is taking part in a fight or maybe an assault but not a hate crime.

Real people under the above situations however have been and are being charge with hate crimes.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Blacks are more likely to be caught, and get more harsh penalties when they are, because our government is racist.

I can prove otherwise.

http://www.kcci.com/news/28428396/detail.html
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/06/14/teen-receives-312-years.html?sid=101
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110623/NEWS97/706239873#accessory-charge-dismissed
Man gets 3 years for fatal attack http://www2.newsvirginian.com/news/2011/may/11/man-scheduled-murder-plea-ar-1032798/
http://www2.dailyprogress.com/news/2011/apr/07/purse-snatcher-serve-11-more-years-ar-955677/

1 Reply

@Pamela Rosa,

Why do you crawl back under the rock you come from?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Seriously Bill, why should I give any credence to an article from a website that says it is:

Quote:

Solar General
The Most Controversial, Censored and Forbidden Web Site in the World

There is also no date. Do you even read the stuff you post from all these sites? If you are reading them, well................................seriously?

Oh, and I've never heard of a latrine being charged with a hate crime before.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Why do you crawl back under the rock you come from?

WHAT? Pamela doesn't have the right to post an opposing view with back up documentation without you making some nasty remark? You post opposing views constantly with outdated and questionable resources and you think you can treat Pamela like that?

Truth hurts I'd say, Bill. It seems whenever someone has opposing proof to your "proof" you get nasty with them. Why is that? Your comment to her was totally uncalled for.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

WHAT? Pamela doesn't have the right to post an opposing view with back up documentation without you making some nasty remark? You post opposing views constantly with outdated and questionable resources and you think you can treat Pamela like that?

You do know that she is an out and out racist of the KKK kind do you not fool?

Postings after postings on this website with nothing but hate directed at anyone with a black skin.

Anytime a person with a black skin attack a white person she happily post about it as if that prove in some way or manner that blacks are sub-human animals.

Hmm your desire to take a shot at me is greater then a normal person contempt for such assholes?

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@Arella Mae,

The numbers of blacks and other groups from the FBI reports who ended up on the wrong side of the hate crime laws is not facts?

Oh the numbers and the ratio are fairly constant over the years with no big changes and that is the reason I did not take the trouble of postings updated figures.

Blacks are roughly 2.5 times more likely to be charge with a hate crime then a white person if memory serve me correctly.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

For every white KKK member who is charge with a hate crime there are many more teenagers who where acting out of simple stupidity not hate who is being charge with such crimes.

You have repeatedly missed the point on this topic--quite real hate crimes occur, and they are not due to "simple stupidity" they are due to hatred and bias toward an entire group.

The determination of whether a bias crime has occurred is made by a jury. The bias-related motive must be proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, to a jury's satisfaction.

Quote:

Lord you are being very dishonest as always with such silly claims as such laws are not and can not be so written tightly given that it all revolve around not deeds but the state of mind of human beings

State of mind, such as intention, is an aspect of many laws--including those for murder, which require an intent to cause death. However, what you call "state of mind" is inferred from the actual behavior and actions of the person accused of such crimes--it has absolutely nothing to do with "mind-reading". You are simply ignorant of the laws, the actual laws and how they are worded, something you have proved time and time again on other legal issues.

Furthermore, the fact that you are unfamiliar with any specific bias-crime laws, and the exact wording of these laws, renders meaningless anything you have to say on this topic.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
WHAT? Pamela doesn't have the right to post an opposing view with back up documentation without you making some nasty remark? You post opposing views constantly with outdated and questionable resources and you think you can treat Pamela like that?

You do know that she is an out and out racist of the KKK kind do you not fool?

Postings after postings on this website with nothing but hate directed at anyone with a black skin.

Anytime a person with a black skin attack a white person she happily post about it as if that prove in some way or manner that blacks are sub-human animals.

Hmm your desire to take a shot at me is greater then a normal person contempt for such assholes?

I am not a a fool. No, I don't know that about Pamela. That is the first post of Pamela's I have ever seen! The point is your comment was out of line. All Pamela did was post proof you were not entirely correct.

I thought you didn't use cusswords? I guess you lied. It has nothing to do with taking potshots at you. It has to do with the truth.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

You do know that she is an out and out racist of the KKK kind do you not, ...?

I wonder, Bill, whether you believe that an out and out racist is worse or the same as a person who defends terrorists and war criminals?

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

But hate crime/bias-crime laws aren't making distinctions based on race/sex/religion in terms of how the laws are applied--these laws apply to everyone. They simply refer to criminal acts directed toward an individual or group because of hatred or animosity toward the entire group to which the individual belongs.

If a gay man is beaten and killed, simply because he is gay, and for no other reason, the crime could be considered a bias-related murder. How would seeing it as a bias-related crime stir up more hatred or hostility toward gay men?

The thing is, intent its subjective. Its very easy for a crime commited against a gay man to be made into a hate crime even if it wasnt, and its very easy for a hate crime commited against a majority to "dogde" the hate-crime punishment due to the uncommoness of crimes being commited against majorities.

I mean, its easy when the criminal admits the hatred against a group or made it pretty obvious before/during the crime, but what if he didnt and denies it? Thats where unfortunate jumps to conclusions and intention guessing are gonna happen.

And, off course, the more media attention whatever minority group the victim belongs to has, and the smallest it is, the greater the chances of that the man's actions will be interpreted as a hate crime independently of that being the case or not. This creates an overall situation where crimes against minorities are punished more severely than crimes against non-minority members.

And injustice breeds hatred.

firefly wrote:

But there are different races, how can anyone not admit that?

True, but its something we have to forget. For racism to ever end, people need to stop looking at a white man and a black man and taking special note of their different skin colors and making the related assumptions. This will never happen as long as even the laws themselves make distinction between the races.

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@Arella Mae,

Here AM is the history of the postings of this sub human racist asshole who appear as if by evil magic anytime race come into the subject.

http://able2know.org/user/pamela_rosa/

And no maybe you will defend such people and are concern about them being insulted but every damn time she crawl out from under her rock to take part in a thread that I am on I will cheerfully insult her.

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@BillRM,

You don't get it, do you? I'm not defending the person. I am defending the truth. Seriously, Bill, you use language like that and you are no better. You call her a subhuman racist a**hole and you think you are better? I'm not going back to read a thing. I told you it was about the truth. You are such a hypocrite to call her subhuman and a racist when you are just as guilty of the same type of behavior.

You don't want hate crimes laws I imagine because you would be guilty of them yourself.

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@BillRM,

And being a ground level dweller yourself, I guess you're the first to see these types emerge.

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@BillRM,

I agree with you BillRm. The only benefit I can see to PR's posts is that they provide me with a reminder that there really are people who think racism is normal and acceptable. Snood's posts about the school he was teaching have a similar effect. I sometimes need to be reminded that people who think like that (and don't think there's anything wrong with it) exist.

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@Arella Mae,

Yes, AM I will cheerfully call a person who believes and publicly promote that blacks are sub-human as a race sub-human herself.

Her postings on this website leave no question of any kind about her and if you think that calling a person sub-human for her own individual actions is the same as labeling a whole group of millions of people that have a skin color in common less then human you are one sick Christian indeed.

Have you enjoy her postings by the way?

2 Replies

The Horror of Hate Crimes

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