11
   

The Horror of Hate Crimes

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Aug, 2011 11:52 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
Is that the best you can do?? Not a single defense of your beliefs is to be forthcoming?

I don't have to defend my beliefs--particularly to someone like you. You're not even capable of understanding or discussing my opinions without grossly distorting them. Sinking to your level of discussion is like wading in the gutter, and I do prefer higher ground.

Go wash your sheet, it's got mud splattered all over it.
Yes, you are an elitist though and through aren't you....you ply us with cartoons like Nixon used to tell sports jokes, in the futile attempt to pretend that you are one of us.....but when push comes to shove you are not. Anyone who trusts you to tell the truth or for anything else is a damn fool.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 07:34 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
WOW, do you really want to go on record arguing that blacks, asians, fags, women and all of the other "special" people are weaker than normal people??



I guess you don't read well? She said "THAT IS THE CASE WITH CHILDREN AND THE ELDERLY............" You threw the strawman in there with the blacks, etc.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 07:41 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Yes, you are an elitist though and through aren't you....you ply us with cartoons like Nixon used to tell sports jokes, in the futile attempt to pretend that you are one of us.....but when push comes to shove you are not. Anyone who trusts you to tell the truth or for anything else is a damn fool.


Now who is acting like the thought police? She has a differing view and opinion and, of course, that means she is lying, is a fool, and can't be trusted. You and bill have seriously ruined any credibility you ever had and you do it with your own words.

On a real serious note, I dubt firefly would ever say she is "one of us" if you are in the group.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 07:48 am
Thank God there is VIDEO PROOF of what happened and this GUILTY person will not get away with it! Sorry, it was on film. I cannot in good conscience assume he is innocent until proven guilty. The video proves HE IS GUILTY.

Quote:
Death penalty now a possibility in alleged Mississippi hate killing

Jackson, Mississippi (CNN) -- The prosecutor investigating the hit-and-run killing of a black man in Jackson, Mississippi, announced he has upgraded the charge against suspect Deryl Dedmon from murder to capital murder. This makes the white 19-year-old suspect eligible for a possible death sentence if convicted.

Hinds County District Attorney Robert Smith released a statement that said the upgrade to capital murder was made after new evidence was discovered that supported the allegation that Dedmon committed the crime of robbery during the commission of the killing of James Craig Anderson.

"It does not change the theory of the case," Shuler Smith told CNN. "It is still a hate crime."

The killing -- which sparked national attention after CNN obtained and aired exclusive surveillance video that shows the attack as it took place -- is also being investigated by the U.S. Justice Department, federal and Mississippi officials tell CNN.

Anderson, 49, was first beaten by the group of teens as he stood in a hotel parking lot early on the morning of June 26, according to some of the teens who were interviewed by police.

After the beating, a group of the teens drove a large Ford pickup truck over Anderson, according to witnesses and officials. Anderson died from his injuries later the same day.

Deryl Dedmon Jr., right, could face the death penalty in the case. John Aaron Rice has been charged with simple assault.Federal investigators are in Jackson at the request of Smith, who says he will be seeking indictments against some or all of the white teens in coming weeks.

"This was a racially motivated murder, committed because the victim was black. We want to prosecute and bring justice in this case to the fullest extent of the law," said Smith, explaining that he called Justice Department officials and asked for more investigators to come to Mississippi to help interview witnesses and pursue leads in the crime.

Under federal law, authorities can pursue further charges and punishment if it is determined that a crime was racially motivated. Officials from the U.S. Department of Justice confirmed to CNN that "the department has an ongoing investigation."

The group of teens that night was led by Dedmon of Brandon, Mississippi, according to police and officials in the DA's office. Dedmon is being held in Jackson.

Another teen, John Aaron Rice, was also charged with murder at first, until a judge reduced his charges because Rice was not believed to be driving the vehicle used to kill Anderson.

Smith and officials in the Hinds County District Attorney's office say they plan to indict both Dedmon and Rice for murder and a hate crime.

Attorneys for Dedmon and Rice did not return CNN's calls.

During a bond hearing, Dedmon's attorney told the court he saw nothing to back up the "racial allegations."

Neither teen has pleaded yet, and none of the other teens has been charged.

But Hinds and officials from the DA's office say they hope to bring indictments against not only Dedmon and Rice, but also other teens who were in their cars and part of the attack that early morning.

Dedmon led and instigated the attack, according to officials; he took part in and led the beating of Anderson, and Dedmon was also the driver of the Ford 250 truck that served as the murder weapon, according to officials.

Before the murder, as the teens were partying and drinking miles away from Jackson that night, in largely white Rankin County, Dedmon told friends they should leave, saying, "Let's go **** with some niggers," according to law enforcement officials.

Then the gang of teens climbed into Dedmon's green truck and a white SUV Cherokee and drove 16 miles down Interstate 20 to the western edge of Jackson, a predominantly black area.

The teens would have seen Anderson immediately as they exited the highway, because the parking lot where he was standing is just beside the exit ramp.

"This is the first business that you get to coming off the highway and so that was the first person that was out here and vulnerable," said Smith.

On the videotape, obtained and reviewed by CNN, a truck is seen pulling into the parking lot and stopping where Anderson is standing, though he is just off camera and not visible.

Teens can then be seen going back and forth between their cars and Anderson.

Watch the video (contains graphic images; discretion advised)

Witnesses told law enforcement officials this is when the repeated beatings of Anderson took place. Dedmon pummeled Anderson repeatedly as he crumpled to the street, according to officials, though this is not visible in the videotape.

After the beating, some of the teens left and some got into the truck.

At this moment on the video, Anderson becomes visible, as he staggers into view and walks toward the headlights of the truck. The truck suddenly surges ahead, running over Anderson, then continues at high speed away from the scene.

Shortly after he allegedly drove the truck over Anderson, Dedmon allegedly boasted and laughed about the killing, according to the testimony of police detectives who interviewed the teens.

"I ran that nigger over," Dedmon allegedly said in a phone conversation to the teens in the other car. He repeated the racial language in subsequent conversations, according to the law enforcement officials.

"He was not remorseful. He was laughing, laughing about the killing," said district attorney Smith.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 09:07 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
"He was not remorseful. He was laughing, laughing about the killing," said district attorney Smith.


Pretty damn stupid of Smith to expect that there would be pointed levels/active voicing of remorse at this stage.

There was no remorse from thousands upon thousands of US troops who regularly gunned down innocent men, women and children in innumerable encounters in numerous countries.

There was no remorse from the highest US government officials. In fact, they took great pains to hide these facts.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 09:13 am
@JTT,
Lots of people have felt remorse after commiting such acts. In this case, the kid could have sobered up, realized what he had done and become remorseful. Instead, he chose to laugh about it.

This is thread is not about the wars JTT.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 09:27 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
This is thread is not about the wars, JTT.


The parallel is apt, Arella. You are right that there are lots of people that feel remorse, but clearly there are millions upon millions who don't give a rat's ass about the millions of innocents who have been slaughtered by the US.

Madeline Albright thought it was just peachy that the US killed half a million Iraqi kids. There was no remorse from the major players in the My Lai massacre, which was one of many such massacres.

There actually are almost zero Americans, when measured against the total population, who ever express any remorse for what their country has done.

Lies, lies and more lies led the US into Iraq and Afghanistan and there's not only no remorse for the millions murdered, lives ruined, there's no one demanding that the war criminals who instigated are brought to justice.

Have you heard any remorse from Bush and the gang?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 09:44 am
@JTT,
Look, I kind of like you but seriously, I have answered these questions before and I am not going to be grilled about it again. So I am asking you kindly to let it go.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:01 am
@Arella Mae,
I'm not sure what liking me or not has to do with it, Arella, but for the record, I think you a pretty nice lady yourself.

The vast majority of what you call "wars" were not wars at all. They were illegal invasions of sovereign nations by the US. But the salient point right at this moment is the lack of remorse.

I know you know that.

And that really is mind boggling when you think about it. The people of Iraq did absolutely nothing to the US. Saddam Hussein did nothing to the US. Saddam was the US's friend.

And now, how many people are dead because of US lies, US war crimes - and, where is the remorse?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:06 am
@JTT,
I am afraid you will have to ask the people that commited the crimes where their remorse is. I know this kid, which is what this thread was based on, has none.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:23 am
@Arella Mae,
Well, that was my initial point. It was merely grandstanding for Smith to come up with that bit of nonsense at this point. Noting his position, it's reasonable to assume that he's familiar with a defendant's right to not implicate himself.

Whatever the kid has done, the important thing is for society to follow the process, and Smith is a central part of that process. Grandstanding before the press is never something that a DA should be doing.


Quote:
I am afraid you will have to ask the people that commited the crimes where their remorse is. I know this kid, which is what this thread was based on, has none.


You haven't asked young Dedmon what his measure of remorse is. You've latched onto the inappropriate comments of a grandstanding DA.

Many of the people who committed those war crimes are your representatives. They are your governments, the people that you elect. Don't you think that you have a responsibility to hold to account those that take your tax dollars, your vote, and use it for criminal action?

You did say, "I don't think there are any excuses for hurting others".
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:27 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Many of the people who committed those war crimes are your representatives. They are your governments, the people that you elect. Don't you think that you have a responsibility to hold to account those that take your tax dollars, your vote, and use it for criminal action?


Is there any subject that you will not bend around to the evil US and it war crimes?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:33 am
@JTT,
I watched the video. Did you? I'm not saying the DA should have made those remarks but he did. It was reported by more than one person how little remorse the accused seemed to have according to what others heard him say. Ex: "I ran that n****** over!"

Again, I have answered all these questions concerning ANY CRIMINAL.

This thread is not about the war (whether it be sanctioned or not), JTT. This is about people that INTENTIONALLY seek out CERTAIN people to hurt.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:01 am
THEY ARE FREE! THEY ARE FREE! THEY ARE FREE!!!!!!!! I AM CRYING! THANK YOU JESUS!

I didn't hear all the details. After 18 years they are free. Can you imagine what that must feel like to them? I am soooooooooo happy for them!
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:15 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Well, that was my initial point. It was merely grandstanding for Smith to come up with that bit of nonsense at this point. Noting his position, it's reasonable to assume that he's familiar with a defendant's right to not implicate himself.

Whatever the kid has done, the important thing is for society to follow the process, and Smith is a central part of that process. Grandstanding before the press is never something that a DA should be doing.

What you are calling "that bit of nonsense" is an element of the crime involved--Dedmon's statements indicate his deliberate intention to run Anderson over with his truck, and his verbal comments, both before and after this act, indicate that his selection of a victim was made on the basis of racial bias. Since the D.A. has indicated his intention to prosecute this case as murder as a hate crime, under Mississippi hate crime law, the D.A. is justifying his position to the public and not really engaging in gratuitous "grandstanding".

Sure, a defendant has a "right to not implicate himself", but that's when he's being questioned by law enforcement. Statements the defendant has made to other witnesses, either before or after commission of the crime, can most certainly be used against him. No one has violated his right to remain silent.

Personally, I think the issue of lack of remorse is irrelevant to the crime itself, although it does tend to reinforce other evidence that this was a deliberate act committed with intention and that the victim was deliberately selected on the basis of bias. But, his lack of remorse tells you more about his character than anything else, and it's not his character that will be on trial--it's his actions that will be judged.
Quote:
Whatever the kid has done, the important thing is for society to follow the process.

On that I think we do agree. I want to see Dedmon's legal rights fully upheld. The fact that so many people have already viewed that video does raise issues about finding unbiased jurors, although the issue of his guilt for murder is separate from the issue of whether this was a hate crime, and, on the hate crime matter, it may be quite possible to find people without preconceived opinions. Obviously, the whole matter of jury selection is going to be very important in this case, as will be the issue of whether the D.A. is willing to accept a plea deal or force it to go to trial simply to show how Mississippi has progressed and moved away from it's past ugly history of tolerating/enabling racially motivated crimes.


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:16 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I'm not saying the DA should have made those remarks but he did.


That's was my point. He is responsible for justice and justice isn't getting people all inflamed. The courtroom is the proper place for those types of comments.

Again, his lawyers, correctly so, would not parade young Dedmon in front of an audience to express remorse. There is a process to follow and while it might not seem as personally satisfying as a string him up mentality, there are very good reasons for that process.

Quote:
Again, I have answered all these questions concerning ANY CRIMINAL.


I appreciate that, Arella. It's just your selectivity that I wonder about.

Quote:
This thread is not about the war (whether it be sanctioned or not), JTT. This is about people that INTENTIONALLY seek out CERTAIN people to hurt.


Yes, you said it - his thread is about people that "INTENTIONALLY seek out CERTAIN people to hurt".

Every American president since Eisenhower has intentionally sought to hurt, in essence to murder innocent civilians because they knew that would be the result. Some have been much worse than others but they have all committed war crimes, ie. intentionally set out to hurt people.

I did watch the video and I read the reports too and I am as sickened by them as you.

Now, will you read these reports from a high ranking CIA officer who left the CIA because he was horrified by what his government was doing?

I think that you'll find that setting out to intentionally hurt people is exactly what has been done, is still being done by the US government.

[BillRM realizes this. That's what makes him come up with these lame excuses/lame responses. But then you're already aware of just what a morally vacuous shell of a human being BillRM is.]

Quote:
Nicaragua. What's happening in Nicaragua today is covert action. It's a classic de-stabilization program. In November 16, 1981, President Reagan allocated 19 million dollars to form an army, a force of contras, they're called, ex-Somoza national guards, the monsters who were doing the torture and terror in Nicaragua that made the Nicaraguan people rise up and throw out the dictator, and throw out the guard. We went back to create an army of these people. We are killing, and killing, and terrorizing people. Not only in Nicaragua but the Congress has leaked to the press - reported in the New York Times, that there are 50 covert actions going around the world today, CIA covert actions going on around the world today.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_1.html


Quote:
I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:28 am
@Arella Mae,
Who is free, Arella?

EDIT: I think I know. Firefly's Memphis 3 thread.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:32 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Who is free, Arella?


The West Memphis Three! Imprisoned for 18 years FALSELY for the death of three young boys. I am so happy they are free!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:42 am
@firefly,
There are many elements involved in any crime. It's not good policy for defenders of justice to be grandstanding, and grandstanding is what it was. Why take a chance, any chance on polluting the jury pool?

He has no idea of the actual level of remorse felt by Dedmon [apt surname?]. He does have a idea of the tendency of young people to say really stupid things at inappropriate times and he has taken a play right out of their book for himself.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 12:07 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
to the evil US and it war crimes


Am I to take it that you feel that the evil and the war crimes committed by the US is a topic that should not be discussed, Bill?
0 Replies
 
 

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