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Are You in Favor of Brat Bans??

 
 
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 02:56 am
Quote:
What's the matter with kids today and why doesn't anyone want them around? In June, Malaysia Airlines banned babies from many of their first class cabins, prompting other major airlines to consider similar policies.

Lately, complaints about screaming kids are being taken seriously, not only by airlines, but by hotels, movie theaters, restaurants, and even grocery stores.


Earlier this month, McDain's, a Pittsburgh area restaurant that banned kids under 6 became a mascot for the no-kids-zone movement.

According to a Pittsburgh local news poll, more than half of area residents were in favor of the ban. And now big business is paying attention.

"Brat bans could well be the next frontier in destination and leisure-product marketing," writes Robert Klara in an article on the child-free trend in AdWeek.

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/the-no-kids-allowed-movement-is-spreading-2516110/

I am conflicted, as I both agree that businesses should have the freedom to create a no kid environment in their space now that so many parents do such a poor job of teaching their kids to behave, but I also dont want to see our society become even more hostile to kids than we already are......my opinion being that while we talk a good game about caring about kids and supporting parents we have not done either well in a long time.

What say you?
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:15 am
Quote:
Recently my husband and I had the rare opportunity to indulge in an honest to goodness date night; meaning, it wasn’t on our couch in front of the television, and our children were nowhere to be found within a five-mile radius.
We chose a local restaurant in one of our favorite parts of town and sat down to enjoy a simple meal that wasn’t ordered off of a kids menu and didn’t come with a side of interruptions.


We were having a delightful time until someone else’s kid began acting up and my blood pressure began to rise. After 10 minutes of this I’d finally had enough. After all, my date night is a rare and precious commodity in my life, and I’d rather not listen to someone whine through their meal during my coveted “adult” time.
We promptly paid the bill, took our leftovers in a doggie bag, and enjoyed the rest of the evening having coffee (me) and drinks (him) at a local bar, where we were guaranteed a child-free atmosphere.
It seems we aren’t the only patrons who go searching for a kid-free experience, and businesses are taking notice.
Known by some as the Brat Ban, restaurants, hotels, airlines and even some movie theatres are jumping on the bandwagon and declaring their locations as Kid-Free zones. It’s not the newest trend in marketing, but it seems to picking up pace in recent months as industry experts realize that patrons are seeking out experiences that promise to be geared specifically towards grown-ups, and prohibit children from participating.
So are children becoming second-class citizens? Are families being unfairly targeted by businesses and consumers?
I wouldn’t jump to any media-fueled conclusions yet. When I tried googling different variations of kid-free locations that essentially banned your little ones in and around Orange County, I came up short and was instead directed to a slew of websites filled with child-friendly activities and eateries that offered special discounted menus for kids.
I certainly don’t have to look far to know that at least in my community, children are still driving the market trends; my local Target, McDonalds, Ruby’s Diner, Chuck E. Cheese, parks and recreation facilities, libraries and kid’s museums are tell tale signs that families are still the primary focus for both big and small businesses.
I’m also not particularly offended by the idea of having specific venues dedicated to an adult-only crowd. Because even though I’m wise enough to know not to bring my children to a five-star restaurant that features fine bone china and crisp white linens, not everyone else is. If it looks like my boys won’t be getting a box of crayons and a separate menu upon our arrival, we avoid it. It’s a matter of common sense and courtesy (plus, to be honest, it’s not very much fun for anyone involved if we force ourselves into an environment that regards us as an annoyance before we’ve even ordered).
By having establishments designate that kids are not welcome, it takes the guess work out of deciding where to go with your own brood (or, on the flip side, where to go when you are in need of some serious down time that doesn’t require a diaper bag and booster seats).
Of course, I felt no ill will toward the family who was dining in the same restaurant with us during my date night with my husband, because it was a place that regularly catered to guests with children; we’ve eaten there countless times with our own two boys. The burden was on us since we knowingly chose to eat there (with our fingers crossed that maybe it would be a slow night) and though we ultimately decided to pack up early and leave, we did so without any resentment toward either the establishment or the child.
Had we been dining in a more formal venue however, one that did not serve apple juice out of sippy cups and offer endless refills on fries, we may have felt otherwise.
Because everyone, especially overworked and exhausted parents, deserves to dine somewhere void of tears and tantrums, nose-picking and naughtiness, drama and defiance.
Of course, if we go by these criteria then I know some adults who would have to be banned as well.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/brat-309831-ban-restaurants.html
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:42 am
I don't mind the kid bans but I do wonder what they'll ban next. People with Tourettes who can't control the noises that they make? Mentally handicapped people who can't always control their behavior in "adult" ways? Is it only kids that make noise and cause commotion? I'm more annoyed with people talking on their cell phones than by kids. Can we ban cell phone talkers?

Restaurants should have just taken their old smoking areas and made them kid-free zones. People with kids never sat in smoking areas anyway.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:46 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
Restaurants should have just taken their old smoking areas and made them kid-free zones. People with kids never sat in smoking areas anyway.
So how about if we get the government out of the smoking banning business so that restaurants can set up the smoking areas again?? Problem solved right?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:50 am
@hawkeye10,
Pretty much.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:50 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
Can we ban cell phone talkers?
Amtrak actually has a no cell car on a lot of its trains.....just last month they pulled a woman off of the Coast Starlight in Washington after she had yakked on her phone all the way from California, and refused to stop/move. It was the first time any of my internet railfan buddies could remember Amtrak demanding that this policy be followed. Reports are that passengers erupted in cheer as the cops hauled her away.

Edit: a sad aside on this event is that I half suspect that this woman got nailed only because she is black and fat.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:54 am
@hawkeye10,
Mr. B says cell phones ARE the new cigarette.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:07 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

Mr. B says cell phones ARE the new cigarette.
To include the health risk aspects , as multiple studies show.....

But we are selective in the risks and harms that we choose to care about with government regulation and law, and dont expect our choices to make any rational sense, we get who we want to get and the "we need to protect individuals" line is nothing but a handy cover story.....
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:12 am
@hawkeye10,
He means from a psychologically addictive standpoint. People use to have a smoke when they didn't have anything else to do, now they talk on their cell phone.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:18 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

He means from a psychologically addictive standpoint. People use to have a smoke when they didn't have anything else to do, now they talk on their cell phone.
OK, but as I pointed out your hubby is more right than he knows.....
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:51 am
@boomerang,
This is the woman who got booted off Amtrak, maybe she's protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A_zrRSKWORU/TdRFksqy9tI/AAAAAAAAApM/4pqFQc2RRmw/s1600/16+Hr+talker.JPG

I think addicts and the mentally ill are protected but I'm not sure.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:59 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
People with kids never sat in smoking areas anyway.


That certainly is not correct. I've seen so many smoking parents (when there was smoking areas in restaurants) bring their children into the smoking area so they could smoke.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:00 am
I am conflicted as well. I understand and would not want kids making noises and being disruptive during all the mentioned places stated.

During a spring vacation, we were staying at a very nice high end villas. There were young kids above us jumping off the bed and onto the floor over and over about 6am. We reported them to the front desk. They said they would send some one over to talk to them. Unfortunately this continued throughout our vacation. So we continuously called, but because they were so busy, they could only offer to move us to another where we would still have people above us. I even went up to their room in my pajamas and the parents were like, “what?”

But I also have children – and I have taken them to these places. In hotel rooms, I would tell them not to jump or run as there are people below us. In restaurants that do not serve children’s meals, we would explain the expected behavior and if they did not act as such, we would remove them from the restaurant. Just common sense stuff.

I think what a business should do – is if some one complains do to a child or children misbehaving (or even if a business owner notices this), to explain to the parents this behavior is not acceptable in our restaurant/hotel/whatever and if they do not control their children, they will have to leave. For that matter – this should also apply to adults that do not behave appropriately. It really is not right that children that know how to behave are penalized because of the brats. Some children do enjoy “non-kid” meals and a more grown up atmosphere.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:50 am
@Linkat,
A lot of restaurants over here welcome 'Well Behaved' children. My kids have always behaved themselves in restaurants. It's not children that are a problem, but the behaviour of some. If your kid's a brat expect to be thrown out, otherwise don't worry.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:55 am
@izzythepush,
I don't worry - we have never had a problem when taking our kids out. They, fortunately, understand that in some places, they need to behave quietly and politely and stuff like that. If our kids did not behave a certain way, we would not take them (and they know this).

I've removed my children from Wal-Mart (of all places) because they were fighting with each and not behaving even with a full cart. I brought them home and they had to sit on their beds. It never happened again.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:04 am
@Linkat,
My last phrase was not particularly directed at you. I'm sure your children are wonderful.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:06 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I don't mind the kid bans but I do wonder what they'll ban next. People with Tourettes who can't control the noises that they make? Mentally handicapped people who can't always control their behavior in "adult" ways? ...


This is the same silly argument people who are opposed to euthanasia make... who will decide when the parent should die? What if the children think the parent is becoming a real burden? Etc etc etc....

No business I know of has ever made an issue of someone who has a handicap of some sort, and, in fact, they allow brats to control the environment, so there's certainly no fear of that. Have YOU ever seen a mentally challenged person being asked to leave anywhere? Of course not.

It's just a silly argument. If they haven't even banned bratty children (much to everyone's annoyance), they'd hardly go that extra step.
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:24 am
I'm NOT in favor of Brat Bans! I'm very in favor of brats.

http://www.thegrandoldgame.com/Bob/Bayern/brats01.jpg

Mmmm, brats.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:47 am
@izzythepush,
Didn't take it that way. And they are not always wonderful - they just know I will beat the living sh*t outta them if they disturb my dinner.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 05:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm with you that private businesses can do what they want within the law. If everyone bans children then the market will create a counterbalance. Child friendly businesses will rise up to capture the market that others spurn. As long as parents have money to spend, businesses will find a way to cater to them.
 

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