26
   

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 01:24 pm
@farmerman,


No, Obama is the big loser if they don't reach an agreement and he's still a loser if they do.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 01:28 pm
@H2O MAN,
Then you are not ready to advance to grade 4. The GOP didnt embrace the "big deal" because they didnt want to anoint Obama with some victory. SO now, if and when all things go south, the GOP is gonna have to look around for scapegoats and the Tea Party is ready made.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 01:43 pm
McConnell blinked today. More later once their plan is developed in fullness.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 01:56 pm
McConnell today:
"...I have little question that as long as this president is in the Oval Office, a real solution is probably unattainable."
and
"The president has presented us with three choices: smoke and mirrors, tax hikes, or default. Republicans choose none of the above. ...I refuse to do harm. ...Republicans will...ensure the government doesn't default."
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 02:45 pm
@farmerman,


Formerman, you got it wrong again... no surprise.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 02:54 pm
I don't know if this plan will happen or not, because Republicans are currently freaking out about it. But they've really painted themselves into a corner on this thing, and the (semi)adults who run the party aren't about to let them go down in flames, just so the waterboys of the world can feel like they got one over on Obama.

Quote:
The Big Blink? McConnell Proposes Giving Obama Authority To Raise Debt Limit Alone
Brian Beutler | July 12, 2011, 2:56PM

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has proposed creating an escape hatch for Congressional Republicans, who have put themselves in a box by threatening not to raise the national debt limit if Democrats don't agree to trillions of dollars in cuts to popular social programs.

The plan is designed to give President Obama the power to raise the debt limit on his own through the end of his first term, but to force Democrats to take a series of votes on the debt limit in the months leading up to the election. This would stave off the threat of defaulting on national obligations, but keep the charged issues of debt and spending at the center of political debate for months.

The development confirms suspicions that the GOP was unwilling to truly use the looming debt ceiling as leverage to force conservative-friendly changes to popular entitlement programs, but suggests strongly that Republicans plan to continue politicking on fiscal issues through the 2012 elections.

In what he described as a "last-choice option," McConnell proposed a method by which the country could avoid default if debt negotiations led by President Obama fail to produce a grand bargain on debt reduction in the days ahead.

"If we're unable to come together, we think it's extremely important that the country reassure the markets that default is not an option, and reassure Social Security recipients and families of military veterans that default is not an option," McConnell said.

The plan would require Congress to pass a bill allowing Obama to raise the debt limit on his own, contingent on a series of steps: Obama would have to notify Congress of his intent tor raise the debt limit -- a high-sign to Congress that would be subject to an official censure known as a "resolution of disapproval," and which Obama could veto. If he vetoed the resolution, and if Congress sustained the veto, then Obama would also have to outline a series of hypothetical spending cuts he'd make, equal to the amount of new debt authority he'd give himself. Only then would the Treasury be allowed to issue new debt.

McConnell proposes rolling out this process in three tranches, to force Obama to request more borrowing authority, and to force debt limit votes in Congress, repeatedly through election season.

Here's how McConnell explained it at his weekly Capitol press conference:

The way it would work is the legislation would authorize him to get to the amount he says he needs based upon the advice of his Secretary of the Treasury in three tranches: The first tranche, $700 billion, the second tranche $900 billion, the third tranche $900 billion.

Once the request is made it would be appropriate in either or both houses for a resolution of disapproval to be taken up on an expedited procedure. If that expedited procedure in both the House and the Senate -- if the resolution of disapproval achieved a majority -- it would go down to him where he could either sign it or veto it. My assumption is he would veto it. And that veto would be sustained by one-third-plus-one in either of the houses.

For a good analogy to the resolution of disapproval, read this.

The legislation would not give Obama unilateral authority to cut spending or reduce deficits. And as such, it represents a big policy cave by Republicans, who've long insisted that they would not raise the debt limit without enacting entitlement cuts long-sought by the conservative movement on a bipartisan basis. But, if Dems buy into this option, it will keep the potent debt issue alive, and central to politics, for much of this election season.

I asked McConnell if he'd cleared this backup plan with House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH). "I've spoken about it with others," he said.

This is the first public blink by the GOP, and a fairly significant abdication of their leverage. But if this is indeed the route by which the debt limit will be raised, Senate Democrats and President Obama will have to support it. And so for they haven't weighed in.

Asked about it at his press conference, just after McConnell's, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) was non-committal. "I'm not about to trash his proposal, it's something I will look at, something I will look at intently," Reid said. "He talked to me for just a few minutes. As some of you know, I'm not long on the telephone and neither is he, but I'm happy to take a look at it. I'd be happy to give his suggestion early consideration.... I'm only willing to take a look at Medicare, and Medicaid if there is a grand bargain, a grand bargain is one that is more than 4 trillion dollars and has significant revenue raisers."


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/the-big-blink-mcconnell-proposes-giving-obama-authority-to-raise-debt-limit-alone.php?ref=fpblg

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 02:58 pm
Obama Blinks, GOP Pounces
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I had not seen that. Talk about smoke and mirrors...
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:07 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

I had not seen that. Talk about smoke and mirrors...


Absolutely is smoke and mirrors. But overall, it's a capitulation.

Outside of DC, I doubt anyone at all really gives a damn about the debt ceiling; and so holding periodic votes on it won't matter to Obama in the slightest.

As things stand, he was publicly willing to compromise, had put important concessions on the table (things his own party, including me, were pissed to see on the negotiating table), and the Republicans refused to play ball. At all. It's a giant PR win for him if this plays out; so, I doubt the House will allow things to play out this way.

Hell of a trial balloon, though, I gotta say. It's tough to see McConnell releasing this without having discussed it with Boehner first.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:17 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Perhaps. However, it is also likely that this gambit (and that's all it is) will force Obama to himself act on the increase in the debt ceiling (subject to limitations set by the Congress) and to openly acknowledge that he is doing so with few reductions in expenditures. That will keep the debt issue and Obama's failure to deal with it, alive until the coming election, and it will take away his silly pretext that he is only thinking about veterans & old folks.

URL: http://able2know.org/reply/post-4663579
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:20 pm
@georgeob1,
Agreed.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:23 pm
I must admit, I think Obama ended up playing this well. The congressional Republicans thought that they could get Obama and the Democrats to cave in to their demands because, in negotiations between the rational guy and the irrational guy with the gun to the rational guy's head, it's usually the irrational guy with the gun who comes out with his demands met.

It is to Obama's credit that he did the unthinkable: he actually took the Republicans seriously. It was a stunning bit of political jiu-jitsu. Rather than fight Boehner, Obama instead gave him more and more of what he wanted, with the proviso that the GOP also had to accept some tax increases. As David Brooks pointed out, any normal political party, when offered this kind of historic bargain, would have accepted eagerly. But the GOP is not a normal political party. It was never really interested in balancing the budget or lowering the debt ceiling, it's just interested in making Obama look bad.

McConnell's move should be seen for what it is: a desperate attempt to save the GOP from itself. But McConnell has even less control over the Teabaggers in the House than Boehner does, and Boehner apparently doesn't have any control over them. It will be interesting to see where this goes, but it promises to be the only way out of the cul de sac into which the Republicans have driven themselves.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:23 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Perhaps. However, it is also likely that this gambit (and that's all it is) will force Obama to himself act on the increase in the debt ceiling (subject to limitations set by the Congress) and to openly acknowledge that he is doing so with few reductions in expenditures. That will keep the debt issue and Obama's failure to deal with it, alive until the coming election, and it will take away his silly pretext that he is only thinking about veterans & old folks.

URL: http://able2know.org/reply/post-4663579


So what? I hate to have to clue you in on this, but nobody gives a **** about the debt ceiling outside of Washington. It's certainly not the top priority for the nation in polling; that's 'jobs,' something that will not be affected meaningfully by what the GOP is trying to do.

There is no 'failure to deal' with the debt issue, outside of your caucus. Because outside of your caucus, there is no 'debt' issue. Our debt is available at extraordinarily cheap rates right now; it would literally be cheaper for us to pay EVERYTHING WE CAN out of debt right now, instead of cash.

But, I highly doubt the GOP will accept this plan or implement it (or that Obama would even go for it, which I doubt), so I'm not going to waste too much time thinking about it yet. The important part is that the Republicans have begun to realize that they are in a losing position no matter what they do; and they're looking for some sort of exit that doesn't make them look like complete fools.

Cycloptichorn
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Outside of DC, I doubt anyone at all really gives a damn about the debt ceiling; and so holding periodic votes on it won't matter to Obama in the slightest.

This needs to be emphasized. Prior to this year, votes on raising the debt ceiling were routine matters that the press barely covered. It's significant to a small segment of the population, but that segment would never vote for Obama anyway, so there's little political risk here for the president.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:34 pm
I can't see Obama going for this "too clever by half" McConnell plan. He said earlier in the week that the time is over for short term band aids and Boehner briefly agreed with him with regards to spending cuts accompanied by tax revenue increases beginning in 2013.
We'll see.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:40 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

I can't see Obama going for this "too clever by half" McConnell plan. He said earlier in the week that the time is over for short term band aids and Boehner briefly agreed with him with regards to spending cuts accompanied by tax revenue increases beginning in 2013.
We'll see.


Yah, I think that Obama will probably seize the moment to push on them.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:49 pm
House Speaker John Boehner, countering perceptions that there is a growing rift between him and his chief deputy, Eric Cantor, on deficit reduction, told Republicans in a closed-door meeting Tuesday that he will not allow tax hikes, and blasted the White House for continuing to push them.

"Am I angry about it? I sure as hell am," Boehner said, according to remarks obtained by Fox News.

The testy comments come as bipartisan congressional leaders prepare to sit down Tuesday afternoon for the third day in a row to figure out a deficit-reduction deal which could clear the way for an increase in the debt ceiling. But with talks in a stalemate, Boehner put the blame squarely on the White House. He told reporters the debt-ceiling increase is "his problem" and put the onus on him to present a deficit-reduction plan that can pass Congress.

The speaker went into great detail about his concerns with the president's approach in the closed-door meeting with the House Republican Conference.

According to the remarks obtained by Fox News, Boehner said Obama initially expressed a willingness to reform all three entitlement programs in exchange for "a list of tax increases."

Boehner said he refused, but came back with an offer to discuss corporate and personal "tax reform." Further, Boehner said he wanted "fewer tax rates and a top rate less than it is today" by early next year -- in exchange for making the bottom four Bush tax rates permanent, as Obama requested.

"The president could not accept that because he wanted to increase the 'progressivity' of the current system," Boehner said. "This is where things began to break down."

Boehner added: "Let me be crystal clear on this -- at no time, ever, during this discussion did I agree to let taxes go up. I haven't spent 20 years here fighting tax increases just to throw it all away in one moment. "

Boehner's statements come as he seeks to assure his caucus he's on their side when it comes to taxes and spending cuts. Tea Party loyalists have had concerns Boehner was edging too close to the White House position on taxes, creating friction between him and Cantor, the House majority leader and favorite of Tea Party Republican freshmen.

Boehner wasn't the only one stepping up the rhetoric ahead of Tuesday's meeting. On the Senate floor, GOP Leader Mitch McConnell accused the president and his party of "deliberate deception."

Cantor also accused Obama of trying to impose "greater costs on the people of this country at a time they can least deal with that."

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, asked about the GOP pushback, said "purist" positions from both sides will not pass and urged lawmakers to compromise.

"We have to acknowledge that maximalist positions will not prevail ... logic dictates otherwise," he said.

Carney also reminded lawmakers that time is running out to raise the debt ceiling by an Aug. 2 deadline. "We're in a matter-of-days phase of these negotiations," Carney said.

On the Democratic side, liberal groups and lawmakers are pressuring the president not to cede ground when it comes to entitlements. The rhetoric on both sides has the potential to complicate the latest marathon push to strike a deal and raise the debt ceiling.

After Obama privately offered to raise the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67, liberal Democrats and advocacy groups cried foul.

Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., told Fox News such cuts would be a political and fiscal "mistake."
One liberal group, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, immediately blasted out an email to supporters urging them to sign a petition to the Obama campaign threatening to withhold support in 2012 if he cuts Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid.

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi reiterated that her caucus continues to oppose cuts in Social Security and Medicare as a "piggybank to subsidize tax cuts for the wealthy."

On Tuesday, Obama told CBS News that without a deal by the Aug. 2 deadline to avoid a potential default, he can't guarantee Social Security checks will go out in the mail past Aug. 3.

"There may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it," Obama reportedly said.

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:58 pm
@H2O MAN,
The taqx increases were loophole closings, something still dear to the wealkthy and the folks who believe they will become wealthy (most of these clowns like H2O boy are putting their copious talents into winning a lottery)
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 04:03 pm
@farmerman,
Formerman, you're my favorite liberal assclown... closing loop holes equates to a tax increase.

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 04:10 pm

No real deficit deal until Obama is gone

meaningful deal to reduce the deficit "probably unattainable" as long as Barack Obama is president
 

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