Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

@JPB,

If Obama will, as his people claim, agree to any deal that moves reconsideration of the debt ceiling to 2013, he's only doing that for one obvious reason.

Years ago I read an essay by the great Max Weber in which he examines politics as a profession, and he writes something that stayed in my mind: most politicians taking a stand are mere windbags; but there are some few, very few, who truly believe in principle, and will at some point say "Here I stand, and I can do no other" (words to that effect, from memory, and translating from the German). I believe, with most of the House Republicans, that this is indeed such a time, and that we must chance default in order to restore fiscal sanity in the national accounts. A 1-year debt ceiling extension must be in the final offer by the House unless it, too, is composed of "mere windbags" - as the no-date-sooner-than-2013-fanatics have already proved themselves to be.

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree, George. It wasn't the progressive Dems who elected Obama other than through the primary process. It was the centrist swing voter who gave him the Office.

You are letting a metaphor replace arithmetic.

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Sorry Harry...

Congress Warned of Credit 'Downgrade' if War Savings Counted as Deficit Reduction

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Sorry Harry...

Congress Warned of Credit 'Downgrade' if War Savings Counted as Deficit Reduction

That was a big part of his "savings" too.....isn't it a bitch when the rating agencies will no longer let all BS fly? Wasn't it Congress who told the credit agencies post Enron and post Wall Street collapse that they wanted the Credit agencies to do what they claimed they do..IE realistically evaluate credit worthiness?

The lesson here: be careful what you ask for.....

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@georgeob1,

From the man who had no arithmetic to discuss August 4th.

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@High Seas,

And that's where we differ. You, I think, see him as a Dem politician and I see him as a centrist worth supporting in a general election (even to the dismay, since, of his base) and a President who isn't just looking at 2012.

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@hawkeye10,

It's hardly a Harry Reid thing - Ryan's 'budget' relied on the exact same thing for it's savings.

Cycloptichorn

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@hawkeye10,

Sounds right to me! LOL

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I am not quite sure what Obama intends to talk about this evening (10 minutes from now) that deserves a speech to the country.

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

I am not quite sure what Obama intends to talk about this evening (10 minutes from now) that deserves a speech to the country.

I'm sure PrezBO is fairly clueless... it should be an epic speech Laughing

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

And that's where we differ. You, I think, see him as a Dem politician and I see him as .... a President who isn't just looking at 2012.

You will excuse me for observing that you can't be acquainted with all the facts in public finances or you wouldn't be holding that opinion. Do you know how many times the debt ceiling has been raised since Obama took the oath of office in January 2009? Three times. On the previous page you wrote:

Quote:

I just sent an email to my freshman Republican rep who campaigned as a moderate Republican that I wouldn't support him in '12 (which I did in '10) if he voted for this bill. He's going to be running for reelection then too. I'm just one vote, but to go through this again in 2012 is lunacy.

Why this opposition to yet another vote next year, if these 3 prior votes within 2 years never bothered you? Btw, no Republican voted in favor of any of those increases. Listen to whatever explanation he gives in his speech for postponing the next vote till 2013 - that may finally convince you Smile

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

I'd guess that he is attempting to bypass filters and speak directly to Americans about why it is extremely important to avoid defaulting on the debt ceiling. That affects what deals he is able to make.

If voters are calling on their Republican representatives to go ahead and make a deal, or even just if polls are showing that people are strongly in favor of a deal, then it helps give Republicans reasons and cover for making a deal.

We have already seen some of that, I think he might be trying to take it up a notch.

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NPR suggests that Boehner will also speak.

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@realjohnboy,

Yes, 2 minutes after Obama is done (as per the report I saw, either Talking Points Memo or NYT).

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@JPB,

Missed this until High Seas quoted it -- bravo JPB.

High Seas, I'm pretty sure that the "this" JPB is referring to is the refusal to raise the debt limit and consequences thereof, not the vote to raise the debt limit itself.

We don't want to go through all of this again -- the threats to go ahead and default, the last-minute wheeling and dealing.

Simply going ahead and voting to raise the debt ceiling -- as we have seventy times in the last fifty years -- is not the problem.

I am all for cutting back on spending, but that's a discussion to have when the budget is being voted on, not when the debt ceiling is being voted on.

1 Reply

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I am all for cutting back on spending, but that's a discussion to have when the budget is being voted on, not when the debt ceiling is being voted on.

Hard to do when the Democrats in the Senate refuse to either consider a budget already passed by the House, or offer one of their own.

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Text of Obama's remarks:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/obama-default-would-be-reckless-and-irresponsible.php

Quote:

The first time a deal passed, a predecessor of mine made the case for a balanced approach by saying this:

"Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment? And I think I know your answer."

Those words were spoken by Ronald Reagan.

Nice.

Whole speech looks good to me. I didn't watch it live.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob doesn't remember that GW Bush increased the debt by $4 to $5 trillion dollars. What Obama spent money on are a) tax cuts for all workers, b) extension of unemployment benefits, c) saved the car industry, and d) helped the banks with bailouts.

Obama took over with GW Bush's Great Recession, two wars, and one of the largest deficit carryovers of any president. Now, the GOP-tea partyiers want Obama to solve all these past problems in one sweep.

Ridiculous.

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@High Seas,

You will excuse me for observing what you omitted from my post rather than what you included.

Yes, I am aware of the facts of public finances, and I think we are closer in alignment there than not.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

sozobe wrote:

I am all for cutting back on spending, but that's a discussion to have when the budget is being voted on, not when the debt ceiling is being voted on.

Hard to do when the Democrats in the Senate refuse to either consider a budget already passed by the House, or offer one of their own.

By this, do you mean to say that the Senate has refused a vote on the Ryan budget ? Because, nothing could be further from the truth.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163307-senate-votes-down-ryan-budget-medicare-

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Tick, tick. August 2nd is the Debt Limit Armageddon. Or Not.

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