22
   

Is Wiener's wiener a career killer?

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 09:18 pm
@edgarblythe,
But he didnt do any coverup to official inquiries did he? There were no implications of lying to a grand jury or to congress.

He should just call it a career and get out of the way and let someone who is less a liability take over . I guess that there would be a special election no?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 09:19 pm
@farmerman,
Public perception is the final arbiter, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 09:34 pm
@kickycan,
Missed you, kicky; your posts are informative to those of us not familiar with the politicos of the east coast.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 10:35 pm

In NY, it is part of the Pattern Jury Instructions,
with which trial judges charge juries in litigation, that if thay find
a witness to have lied in any respect, then thay have the option
of rejecting ALL of his testimony, on that basis, as not being credible.
(Of course, thay don't have to believe any witness, anyway.)

When someone is found in a lie (for instance, if he confesses to lying)
then HOW do u know if he is ever telling the truth in the future??

Is he engaging his CHARACTER ?

Is he engaging his VERACITY ?

If u know that he LIES, then his word means nothing.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 10:42 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
It's the same in California; that's part of the instructions from the judge before the trial begins.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 10:43 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
But he didnt do any coverup to official inquiries did he? There were no implications of lying to a grand jury or to congress. . . .
Does it count if he lies to the citizens of America,
nationwide, including NY, Farmer?

Is there a REASON that u shoud believe him when he speaks in the future,
after he tells u that he lies?

Will u explain that to me, Farmer ?
Inquiring minds wanna know.





David
dlowan
 
  3  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:01 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Not so different after all. The Puritanical bit is simply a part of the lens through which Europeans look at us. They need things like that to keep from seeing the awful mess they have made of the last few centuries. In addition, I suspect they are reflexively a bit more subservient to their ruling elites on both left and right.


You look very puritanical to most of the rest of the world, not just Europe, especially in the veneer you expect your politicians to maintain. I think it's a recipe for disaster, frankly because of the falseness and hypocrisy it almost mandates.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:01 pm
@kickycan,
I see your point.

Only I'll have to go and google Breitbart, never heard of him. Sounds like a character from Bizarro Simpsons.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:08 pm
@kickycan,
kickycan wrote:

I think it sucks that a good man with some weaknesses comes off looking like a horrible person, while Breitbart, a scumbag with maybe one or two good qualities (I have no idea what those might be; I'm assuming that everyone has some good qualities) comes off looking like a good man in all this.

******* Weiner. One less voice of reason in politics if he leaves. Even if he stays, I don't think he's going to be able to still have the same gravitas after this. Why couldn't it have been Boehner! The jokes would have been just as good, but he's a phony Republican asshole so it wouldn't matter!

Do you consider yours, "a voice of reason"? On what basis do you call Breitbard a "scumbag" and, at the same time, term Weiner a "voice of reason in politics" and as having "gravitas" ? Breitbart didn't commit the follies here, or tell the repeated and highly convoluted lies that followed; your hero did all that. It appears that your own prejudiuces are all that is at work here..

In fact Weiner has long been exceedingly partisan in his attacks on Republicans, repeatedly condemning both their actions and their inner motives & intentions (as if he really knows them) even on the floor of the House. Hardly a dispassionate "voice of reason" at all - merely a shrill partisan mouthpiece on the make.

I don't think any knowledgable person could assert that Weiner has (or ever had) the "gravitas" that the Romans so admired. Indeed the latest relevations suggest he has little self-control or maturity, a great deal of vanity and self-delusion, very poor judgmen, and is prone to lying profusely when in trouble -- none at all of the quality we call gravitas.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:16 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

You look very puritanical to most of the rest of the world, not just Europe, especially in the veneer you expect your politicians to maintain. I think it's a recipe for disaster, frankly because of the falseness and hypocrisy it almost mandates.


Do you speak for "the rest of the world"?

Assaults on the veneers of various kinds that politicians adopt is a common pastime in nearly all democratic nations. We've got lots of politicians and can easily spare the liars and hypocrites, such as Weiner demonstrated himself to be. As several others here have pointed out, the public issue is mostly the coverup and the attendant lies and hypocrisy that were revealed, as well as the lack of judgment involved - not the crotch shots. Weiner made himself ridiculous and no longer useful to those he represents.

Perhaps the puritianism is just a mote in your eye.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:25 pm
@georgeob1,
kickycan wrote:
I think it sucks that a good man with some weaknesses comes off looking like a horrible person, while Breitbart, a scumbag with maybe one or two good qualities (I have no idea what those might be; I'm assuming that everyone has some good qualities) comes off looking like a good man in all this.

******* Weiner. One less voice of reason in politics if he leaves. Even if he stays, I don't think he's going to be able to still have the same gravitas after this. Why couldn't it have been Boehner! The jokes would have been just as good, but he's a phony Republican asshole so it wouldn't matter!
georgeob1 wrote:
Do you consider yours, "a voice of reason"? On what basis do you call Breitbard a "scumbag" and, at the same time, term Weiner a "voice of reason in politics" and as having "gravitas" ? Breitbart didn't commit the follies here, or tell the repeated and highly convoluted lies that followed; your hero did all that. It appears that your own prejudiuces are all that is at work here..

In fact Weiner has long been exceedingly partisan in his attacks on Republicans, repeatedly condemning both their actions and their inner motives & intentions (as if he really knows them) even on the floor of the House. Hardly a dispassionate "voice of reason" at all - merely a shrill partisan mouthpiece on the make.

I don't think any knowledgable person could assert that Weiner has (or ever had) the "gravitas" that the Romans so admired. Indeed the latest relevations suggest he has little self-control or maturity, a great deal of vanity and self-delusion, very poor judgmen, and is prone to lying profusely when in trouble -- none at all of the quality we call gravitas.
That was very well put, George! KUDOS!!!





David
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:36 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Thank you, David.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 11:53 pm
@georgeob1,
Perhaps, but I think it a fairly consistently noted thing .

I don't speak for the rest of the world, but I hear it.



0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 12:11 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Does it count if he lies to the citizens of America,
Legally it doesnt count. No more than Newt or Bush telling us that our economy fundamentals are "sound".
Its all a matter under wht conditions the lies are spoken.
I say he should resign but for no other reason than weve lost faith with him, not for any trumped up "possible" ethis violation cause their aint one and you know it.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 01:02 am
@farmerman,
David wrote:
Does it count if he lies to the citizens of America,
farmerman wrote:
Legally it doesnt count. No more than Newt or Bush telling us that our economy fundamentals are "sound".
Its all a matter under wht conditions the lies are spoken.
I say he should resign but for no other reason than weve lost faith with him, not for any trumped up "possible" ethis violation cause their aint one and you know it.
I said nothing of any "ethis violation ".

R u accusing Nancy of TRUMPING UP a "possible" ethis violation ?
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  3  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 07:31 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

kickycan wrote:

I think it sucks that a good man with some weaknesses comes off looking like a horrible person, while Breitbart, a scumbag with maybe one or two good qualities (I have no idea what those might be; I'm assuming that everyone has some good qualities) comes off looking like a good man in all this.

******* Weiner. One less voice of reason in politics if he leaves. Even if he stays, I don't think he's going to be able to still have the same gravitas after this. Why couldn't it have been Boehner! The jokes would have been just as good, but he's a phony Republican asshole so it wouldn't matter!

Do you consider yours, "a voice of reason"?


Do you mean me, personally? I don't see how that matters. I saw Weiner as a voice of reason, especially when he'd go on Fox News and argue with the retarded, totally UNREASONABLE assholes on whatever show he was on.

Quote:
On what basis do you call Breitbard a "scumbag" and, at the same time, term Weiner a "voice of reason in politics" and as having "gravitas" ?


Of course, I'm not saying he has any gravitas any more. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?

And as for Breitbart? If you are aware of the "news" stories that he's broken (ACORN, for example) and still think he isn't, then I submit that you are a scumbag too. Or maybe just a biased piece of ****. I don't smell anything, so I'll just stick with scumbag for now.



Quote:
Breitbart didn't commit the follies here, or tell the repeated and highly convoluted lies that followed; your hero did all that. It appears that your own prejudiuces are all that is at work here..


I never said that scumbag did commit any folly THIS TIME, or tell the lies, THIS TIME. Weiner did all that. So I agree with you here. Even the part about my prejudices being at work. But at least I, as a reasonable person, can see that Breitbart has been a completely unfair attacker of anything that doesn't fit into the right wing world view. But, being an unreasonable scumbag, you seem not to see that.

So there! Nanny-nanny boo boo on you!
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 08:44 am
@kickycan,
He went on Fox and argued them down?

What a Mensch! A flawed Mensch, but all the same...
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 09:23 am
@farmerman,


No more than Obama saying he is not worried that the recent economic slowdown is signaling a possible
second recession and said the nation should “not panic”. Obama is saying our economy fundamentals are "sound".
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 10:52 am
@kickycan,
I doubt that Weiner's character suddenly changed - we merely know more about him now. Namely that he has an inflated view of himself; has poor self-control; is prone to serious lapses in judgment; and lies profusely when cornered by his own foolish actions - all the direct opposites of gravitas. Very hard to believe he ever had it, if that is what you are suggesting. Perhaps you, too were just trying to wriggle out of a corner.

You don't appear to deal very well with disagreement either. Perhaps you don't understand gravitas at all.

Fido
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 11:20 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



No more than Obama saying he is not worried that the recent economic slowdown is signaling a possible
second recession and said the nation should “not panic”. Obama is saying our economy fundamentals are "sound".
Having turned over America's future to a handful of big banks, what choice has he but a brave face... The republicans don't want any public money going to poor people when the whole idea of recession is to take advantage of people and push them into poverty... They are fine with hiring a few people if government gives them the money, does not tax them, and lets them keep the profit... But however it is done, it is far too late in this land to bring back capitalism, and the more life we feed to it, the longer it will live and the sooner we will die... Kill the Gdamned thing... But no!!! Obama is going to blow a few more breaths into the hope ballon and thinks that will help... Anyone that stupid deserves to be defeated, but the republicans can only offer people even more stupid... Do you think the Chinese would suffer any of those parade puppets to be their leader??? They have engineers on the top of their government... They have people who actually understand economy... No one gets elected here without proof they are corrupt, and are willing to be controled... They are fronts, and faces... They are personalities when we need Character and intelligence at the top...
 

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