possibly totally off topic (you decide) but i was born into a rural farm family in southern colraodo during WWII and at the age of 2 my father got a job with Aramco in Suadi Arabia developing the oil industry there. I was eductated in a English style school with other kids from many cultures and languages. we were required to learn a language from the 1st grade, adding another language each year. it was normative for everyone to speak using appropriate words rather than languages so that everyone was multi-lingual. But in returning to the USA as a young teen in a moderate sized city, the schools were unsure of what to do with me educationally speaking so they gave me a "Test" which was to diagram a sentence. i had no idea what was expected and flunked the test, i was therefor "retarded" and placed in "special ed". while this was my educational experience in America, my social experience was far worse. While i was blond haired and blue eyed i was not "one of them". I talked funny, spelled funny (colour-color) and in the simplist terms i was "alien". the one thing i learned about America was that there is an overwhelming need to conform. We americans really don't like or trust anyone with even the slightest difference and go to great lengths to insure that to be accepted one must be exactly like everyone else be it language or dress or thinking. After these oh so many years i still wonder what kind of fear it takes to be so unaccepting of differences.
thinking about that is like remembering someone else's life, i was, at that time hitchhiking from Buffalo to Erie at night in the rain and was stopped by some local Mayberry cops probably cause i was a longhair letting my freak flag fly and they demanded to see my draft card (that was the deal then-no draft card-get bruised up and bleeding) but i whipped out my discharge card and they were pissed. Here was their opportunity to get in on the carnage against us rabblerousers and i was just not giving them the excuse they needed.
segue: in 1970 i was hired at a small city in the south by phone to run the news department of a local t.v. station. My wife had just completed her M.S. and also got a position teaching at the local Jr. College. She Had gone down there a month ahead to secure housing and i came down on my motorcycle (i also happened to have very long hair) i arrived in the city and had no idea where to go so i stopped a local police officer for directions. He informed me that i was not welcome in HIS town and had 24 hours to leave. The next morning at work i stated on the news that i had met the welcoming committee and was less than impressed. that night i awoke about midnight to find a cross burning in my front yard.
perception: in reading your responses i take it your digs at poets are directed at me, kinda a waste actually i have been a farmer/rancher as well as a social worker most of my adult life and have no grasp of the art of poetry. i raise cattle, sheep and hogs and do child abuse investigations so i am essentially just another working stiff.
it was a hot summer day on July 23, 1952, but then every day in Cairo was hot. i was but a mere prat of a child and we landed at Cairo to refuel on our way to Rome. Upon disembarking from our plane we were surrounded by a troop of Epyptian soldiers armed to the teeth that escorted us into a baggage holding area at the airport were we were locked up. there we no seats nor food but we remained in that locked room overnight with no word as to why or what was happening to us. The following morning we were again marched out to our plane and we flew on to Rome. Reading the local papers at the airport in Rome when we arrived we discovered we had been through a revolution in which King Farouk was overthrown by his son. It was quite an adventure.
it is quite possible that i have "misunderstood" this issue now before the Supremes but i think that the case involves burning a cross on the property, in the yard, of a black family. If indeed this is correct then it is not an issue of free speech. I once had a cross burned in my yard and i am white, blond, blue eyed and a "damn yankee and i reacted as if it were simply a juvenile prank (it was not) however i have to admit i felt physically threatned.
i dont mean to be argumentative about this but i lived in Saudi Arabia in 1947 when Israel was created and ANY understanding of present day conflicts with Israel/Palestine can't avoid that part of history. Israel was born of violence and its has never ceased in large part because of those early days and the inherent problems have mostly been ignored by the west.
something i would like to add to this "conversation", much of what US colleges/universities identify as "education" is not education at all but rather it is "technical training". from the B.S.=M.S.=PHD we have developed highly trained technologists with little or no "education".
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my point was that when i was in grad school i also worked as a tutor in the humanities dept for both undergrad and grad students who where essentially illiterate in those areas traditionally defined as needed to be an "educated" person. My ex when pursuing her PHD which required a modicum of philosopy was totally lost at sea with elementary concepts of philosophy. Her knowledge of classic literature was at the 10th grade level and her idea of "art" was that stuff they hang in museums she had heard about. She did acquire her PHD from one of the nations top rated Universities in her field but i would not refer to her as "educated", just very highly trained.
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Anon: whew, slow down dude we are all (i think on the same page here) education is the best hope for any kind of meaningful future for everyone, but the flip side of this coin is that we have many "educated" people that cannot think there way out of a paper bag. my grandfather (cherokee indian) had a 3rd grade education yet be could provide excellent discourse on the relative merits of Platonic vs Aristotlean philosophy whereas there is living next door to me an MBA who thinks evolution is satanic trickery used to seduce the "unbelievers".
While i may be charged with being prejudiced, and prejudiced i certainly am. I am prejediced against tyranny over both humanity and nature. I am prejudiced against sacred cows, the favorite pets of tyrants. I am prejudiced in favor of democracy and nature. I am prejudiced in favor of an equitable and settled domestic life. I am prejudiced in favor of wild creatures and their wild habitats. I am prejudiced in favor of charitable relations between humanity and nature. I am prejudiced on behave of the personal proprietorship of land, of proper property. I am prejudiced in the cause of private landowners, small farmers and small ranchers. But my prejudice is balanced by another kind i call public property, not "government land", but as wild land, wild property, that belongs fo everybody, inculding the wild creatures native to it. I understand the likelihood of one kind of property is not safe without the other. You cannot lose you land and remain free, if you keep your land, you cannot be enslaved. My great fear is the fear of dispossession. There is no longer any honest way to deny that a way of living that our leaders continue to praise is destroying all that our country is and all the best that it means. If i am to keep the sanctity of my property then i am indebted to keep the sanctity of "public" property for when i allow public property to be ursurped for the "common good" i likewise allow the ursupation of my personal property. If we as a nation to not keep the faith of protector of what is wild in nature we will lose the faith in what is our own personal freedom.
well, its pretty obvious to me that the peak of rock n' roll was '68 - '73 which just so happens to be the very same years i was a D.J.
pretty amazing uh?
damn i hate being normal
for those of you with a parrot or two, i ask about my parrot, a dusky conure. I often leave the t.v. on for him as he seems to like the noise and i usually have on P.B.S. and he just chatters away to himself but when certain programs come on he literally has a temper tantrum and when sesame street comes on he goes postal. so what is it? the sound?the voices? i am clueless here.
'48 Packard convertable-yellow paid $75 in 1961
a tradition southwest hacineda 2ft thick adobe walls center courtyard all rooms opening onto the courtyard, sculped kiva fireplaces in each room salito tile floors with area rugs and cushions.
anon; this is indeed a difficult topic i am sure for many of us, there is a lot of varying perspectives depending on one's historical circumstances, i was just another grunt in the mud so to speak, whereas others-officers-pilots-behind the lines staff-folks back home etc etc etc.have a totaly different understanding, i came back very angry and very bitter mostly because i felt betrayed and seriously lied to and that, my friend, has deeply effected my attitude about government in general and war in particular. i don't think i could come up with any shred of non-biased information, perhaps others can do better than i.
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well, um there were US troops in Viet Nam, Cambodia and Laos at least as early as summer '62 many of which with no dog tags, Geneva green cards or offical uniforms. i arrived in Oct '62 and i was no advisor.
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well i dont really know a lot as i was an E-4 but what i heard when i was there is that we had been there in small numbers since at least '59 but i cant back that up with anything.
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um and i guess its ok to say that my C.O. was a spook
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UDT group 4 demolitions
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no tunnels, mostly infrastructure, mostly Laos with the Hmong and opium was involved
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kinda funny now in an odd way, my service records show i was stationed at Skaggs Island Naval Air and my med records show me as treated for gunshot wounds in Bangkok at the same time.
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no not at all, we were a unit of 12 and only had contact with "spooks" and hmong, we had what was called a "nasty boat" but according to the military there were no nasty boats there until i think 64 or 65 but i know there were at least 2 there in 62 built i think in Norway (not sure about that)
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we were issued m-14, Remington 12 gauge pump shotguns and our sidearms were S&W model 9 and lots of C-4
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we were almost totally on the Mekong often going into Cambodia but mostly stayed in Laos
from what i can discern from other posters i must think Saddam is the second coming of jesus, Bush is the devil incarnate, i am lacking in minimal intellegence, to blind to see, and a raving lunatic drug induced psychotic who happens to also read poety. i am far more colorful than i had previously imagined.
to be aware of impending finality would, i think, cause great chaos for most of us as we pondered our own values and how we have not lived our lives consistent with our beliefs, how much we have tossed aside for convience.
flying home from Sydney this past spring, 5 security people spent over 30 mins taking apart and examing my zippo lighter, including removing the wick and flint.
i have a Conure, one of the smallest of the true hook billed parrots and when i lived in Mesa Az i knew someone that also had a conure and when someone broke into his apartment the conure drove him away biting and squawking.
"values" are in the eyes of the holders of power. he who has the most power has the better values.
BETWEEN THE APPLE AND THE ANGELS
Fly over
Much lower
No account
No amount
Iowa votes
Politics notes
Soon forgotten
Something's rotten
Women's suffrage
Wyoming's roughage
Kansas corn
D.C. scorn
Land of enchantment
Disenfranchisement
Navajo Apache
Pay the fee
Fly over
Much lower
having had a career as a DSS child abuse investigator (not in MASS) i can verify that much of this is true and much is exaggerated. the entire child welfare system in america needs to be overhauled from the top down with a reality based perspective so often missing. a further discussion of this issue is highly merited to which i would gladly contribute.
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very interesting gezzy, there were a number of cases where i threatened teachers because they wanted children put on ritalin telling them that if anyone needed medication it was the teacher.
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modern education 'if you cant keep the child's attention by teaching then you must medicate' and yes of course i am exaggerating as there are many many wonderful teachers.
interesting, most people i would say are conservative are quite moderate in there opposition to "liberals" but i would say that america has a large segment of "extreme" conservatives, far more than "extreme" liberals and they do tend to be more violent in their opinions and actions. there were some far left groups in the 60's probably spawned by the war and civil rights movements. i, until recently, regarded myself as moderate but in the past year or so have come to realize that i am farther to the left than i realized. Like many people i have some opinions that would be considered conservative and some that would be considered far left depending on the issue. early american history had a distinct liberal element mostly aroung labor issues such as the Wobblies/Socialists but i really don't see any of that currently.
i spent my youth growing up in Saudi Arabia during the creation of Israel (no i am not arab) while the debate rages over Iraq/Iran/Pakistan/India/N.Korea et al the real hot spot is Israel/Palestine. As long as the US continues with unquestioning support/dollars for Israel and continued disregard for UN sanctions for the Palestine state, terrorism/violence will not cease in the middle east. The UN and the US MUST intervene (by force if necessary)
Who 'scapes the lurking serpent's mortal sting?
Not he that sets his foot upon her back.
The smallest worm will turn being trodden on,
And doves will peck in safeguard of their brood.
Henry VI part 3, act 2, scene 1
library the single most dangerous institution in america, long may it live!!!
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fishin' you are correct that many conservatives complained about infringement of personal liberty and i might add so have many liberals. i am in most areas very liberal but i have always denounced the invasion of personal rights and extreme affront to the citizens of america be they from the left or the right. it seems today that the continued disregard for civil liberty is cast from both sides of the aisle.
it is quite possible that as long as our attention, our anxiety is focused on Iraq, on terrorism, we may very well let other issues of domestic policy slide. We may very well heed less attention to losing our civil rights to a "christian agenda", our economic stability to favoring the wealthy. The smoke and mirrors of illusion can cloud an awareness political ojectives.
we used to have WhiteSpot out here in the west and during the 60's they had someone at the door to measure your hair (men only) and if your hair was past the acceptable length you were not allowed in.
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i had a father-in-law that actually believed that one should always eat at truck stops (they must be good cause all the truckers eat there) what he could not understand was that truck stops specialize in quantity not quality.
my grandfathers favorite "i wouldn't piss down his throat even if his heart was on fire"
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lights are flashing
gate is down
but there's no train coming
Its the new rules of poker, the players are at the table, cards dealt, raises are back and forth, the pot grows, Bush calls the table "It's time for people to show their cards, and to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." Cards are slowly showing, Bush sees he has a losing hand, says i didn't mean to call, i want a reshuffle of the deck, players decline, Bush decides to take his chips out of the pot saying "i don't lose if i dont play by the rules." Others note that Bush agreed to the rules when he sat down at the table. Bush says he misunderstood the rules. Bush says pfffffffffffffffttttttttttt i never liked you guys anyway. Game continues, Bush not invited back.
1. Bush did ask for a security council vote.
2. With a no vote, Bush can only go to war with Iraq in violation of U.N. charter.
3. With a no vote, Blair can't support Bush without violation of G.B. law.
4. Without a vote Bush and Blair might sidestep violation of UN Charter.
while i have never heard of "depraved indifference" i think i would go for felony reckless endangerment of a child just as a starter.
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thanks for the link Phoenix i had never heard of that charge, but having more than a few years in the juvenile court system i know how very important the specific charge filed is.
Mr Safire's claim to intellectual discourse hails from his days as speech writer for Sprio Agnew where he coined such terms as "nattering nabobs of negativism" and "an effete corps of impudent snobs" to reference the press corps questioning of Viet Nam policy. Not much has changed as far as i can tell.
Before y'all crucify me, i am a gun owner with no apology. Colorado House Represtative Dave Schulthets responding to a proposed concealed carry gun law in Colorado stated "the right to purchase, own and carry a firearm is not a privilege allowed by govenment. It is a right bestowed by god."
Being an atheist meself i am not all that well versed on the bible but i am pretty sure that the right to carry a conceled weapon is not anywhere in the bible and i am not aware of the prince of peace discussing gun ownership.
i enlisted, i served, i respect others that did the same, i also respect those that went to canada and those that went to prison. we all serve our beliefs and are none the less for it. it is not appropriate to say the the military is why we have freedom any more than others who disagree and serve their country in ways that are consistent with their values.
dont remember the year but my first puter cost $16,000, 8k ram 2 meg hard drive CPM OS, printer was Epson 9-pin dot matrix (about 1980)
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just remembered this little tid bit my first modem was a phone craddle, you dialed the isp server then set the phone on a craddle connected to the puter (not exactly broadband)
ok boys and girls its time to book my vacation and i have no ideas. in the past 18 months i have been to England (mostly London)Portugal, Australia, and Spain. In the past i have been to every country in europe, north africa, middle east, India. So where ever i go this time i have probably been before. I am open to suggestions and would perfer a 10 day stay in one city/area. so keep in mind i am a 58 yr old single male traveling alone and give me some ideas while i still have time to book a flight and hotel.
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c.i. cost always matters but i enjoy travel, if i never see another museum or cathedral again it would be too soon, mostly i enjoy meeting people and doing walkabouts. i have done all the tour stuff in the past and that holds no interest. i usually look for 3 star hotels but depending on the location (at Torremolinos Espana i got a 5 star just to be on the beach) but i took the local bus into the hills to a small farming village where i spent several days at a 4 room inn and loved it. the only real city i like (very much) is london.
i only engage in conversation with others in total agreement with my learned and infinite wisdom. whilst i pontificate my assuredly wise and all knowing opines i expect only frequent nods of approval and adoration. i am a hermit.
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the art of conversation is listening
i seem to oft repeat myself but patriotism is defending your country from your government.
I hate intellectual discussion. When I hear the words `phenomenology' or
`structuralism', I reach for my .357
i ate some really good chili and i think i'm explodin' but its a personal thing with me.
i have always been endeared to the BBC since the time Churchill accused them of aiding the enemy by broadcasting the truth.
um well i always liked John Dos Passos and the way he incorporated various media from songs to newspaper items in the USA trilogy i thought it provided a lot of insight into the era.
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i don't have any academic credentials but i enjoy reading.
the problem with education is that educated people are less susceptable to the absurdities of primative mythologies.
well, from my pointly little head an agnostic is a bit like someone who cant quite rule out the existence of unicorns because they seem like such an interesting creature regardless of total lack of evidence as to their existence. if we can imagine it there is always the possibility?
if the United States was serious about terrorists 90% of the military budget would be on defense instead of offense. follow the money the man said.
i might possbly intimate that the protesters DURING the viet nam escapade are directly responsible for ending that debacle.
media patriotism is akin to teenage acne "be true to your school" adolescent rah rah but then patriotism in general is glorified tribalism complete with war paint (colours) and gangstas from the hood. If we dont grow out of it we will join the Dodo's on the list of species that didn't make the cut.
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i had several close friends (photo-journalists) who covered south american revolutions, wounded several times, and they talked about the excitement of risk (they were also damn good journalists) perhaps some sort of Hemingway syndrome?
while i would admit there are quite a large number of less than articulate members of the anti-war protesters. At a pro-Bush, pro-War demonstration yesterday in Denver Colorado numbering about 700 persons the featured speaker said (para-phrased) "to all you anti-war demonstrators, if you don't support Bush you can just leave the country and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out". Now, we have on this forum many well reasoned persons with sound arguments in support of the Iraq invasion but if this speaker in Denver represents our opposition i fear for the credibilty of the pro-war faction.
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There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is Northern California.
hopefully, and possibly accidently, some truth and accuracy will leak out.
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the journalism of vietnam caused the white house/pentagon to lose an audience for the war. embedded journalists in Iraq do have something to offer but it is not enough to promote adequate understanding of larger questions. just an opinion.
seems as thought many anti affirmative action folks were bemoaning the fact that they should not be held responsible for actions of prior generations, could it be these same folks are now holding the current french citizens responsible for demonstrating gratitude to the US for WW I and WW II ?
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an army, any army, is an organized lynch mob with a politician giving directions.
you can quote me on this
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but is it indicative of France, is it an isolated incident like painting swastikas on jewish synagogues in the US, like burning crosses in the south, it is a valid question but i would prefer more far reaching information before judging an entire nation. this seems more like "snapshot" views than comprehensive analysis.
i try to keep mine isolated around the "esc" key
74 years ago today the worlds first and most reliable stock marker prediction device when on sale. the YOYO
i'm actually 15 yrs old and only here to scope out the older chicks (the ones over 18)
WW II reduced unemployment
being a hawk myself i can readily agree with Saddam, he has got it down pretty good, never allows dissent, keeps the money where it belongs in his and his friends pockets, spends the cash on more military, demands instant and total patriotism, controls the oppositon, keeps control in the family, plays other nations against each other, violates international law at will, manufactures weapons of mass destruction. Sure he has made a few mistakes but he was a C student so you can't expect perfection. He just kinda forgot we all live in an international community that does not take kindly to rogue despots. But, hell, you cant win them all.
well it seems pretty obvious to me that all women should be kept at home, in the kitchen, close to the cranberry juice.
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im getting an ad that asks me if i want bigger boobs, go figure
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if you want to be impotent you have to look inpotent, thats why i always wear a tux.
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well stated Phoenix, i remember well in Vietnam the comments from some who stated that women were too emotional to function well, were the truth be known, the women, especially the nurses were consistently more emotionally stabile then the men. IMO
"french kissing" to be replaced by the Republican p.c. term "epithelial osculation" doesn't sound like near as much fun to me, but i'm not republican.
vocations
starting in the 60's post military i was a radio d.j.
cowboy/rancher
news journalist
child welfare caseworker
mental health clinition
social worker specialist for children with behavior disabilities (autism-fragil x-ebd-downs syndrome etc)
and finally as a child welfare policy analyst for the state dept of social services
maintained my "hobby" as cowboy thru it all raising cattle-sheep and hogs.
casting aside the labels of Republican/Democrat since neither are consistent with political/philosophical doctrines. I am a Liberal, (as in Progressive) what i have traditionally valued as a conservative ethic is personal autonomy, which has, in my opinion been totally abandoned by both sides of the aisle.
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tartarin: no trouble at all but a comment, historically i too have feared the invasion of personal rights from the liberal element, however it seems to me that the neo-conservative that we see now is even worse especially regarding religion/abortion/education.
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the manifest fuction of prohibition was meant to enhance good character and virtue.
the latent function of prohibiton was the creation of organized crime.
i would suggest to Bush that the intent to create a free and democratic middle east might well end up creating the exact opposite.
as the missionaries go forth to christianize the savages, i would suggest that they are dangerous enough as they are, let's not toss gas on the fire.
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i am quite comfortable being here, i have no need to convince anyone of anything and find that others offering different opinions help me to clarify my own thoughts often times new views that open up my understanding. I also find that the majority of participants prefer to discuss points of view without impuning the intelligence of those with whom they disagree. i would also say that i have great respect for the vast majority that i often disagree with. when i am respected by others its easy to respect them.
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"i'm liberal to a degree
but if you think i'm gonna let
Barry Goldwater move in next door
or marry my daughter
you must be crazy"
dylan
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when it comes to partisanship I would never betray a friend to serve a cause. Never reject a friend to help an institution. Great nations may fall in ruin before I would sell a friend to save them.
hi yorkshire and welcome there are many brits on board already and you start off with a profound question of which i am sure you will receive many answers. personally i think Tony Blair has usually demonstrated a good sense of ethics and is quite admired on this side of the Atlantic. But since i have a liberal bias against Bush and this war, my offered opinion is that Blair would like to see himself as the link between Europe and the US and has signed on to the Bush agenda hoping that in the end all will be well. If all does not go well Bush will be gone and probably so will Blair. I also think the rift between the US/Brit and the Euros is in for a long ride.
i hardly know what to say actually, there is certainly a myth in the US that such a thing as privacy exists. It is my understanding that in the UK there are far more restrictive regulations about privacy but it seems that here corporate/government institutions know more about me than I do.
what prompted the invasion (crusades) of the middle east? in short the causes were religion, politics and economics. my my how times have changed!
if it walks like a duct, talks like a duct, looks like a duct, it must be john ashcroft.
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sarcasm: "A bureaucrat is a Democrat who holds some office that a Republican wants"
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i'm still waiting for the refrigerator magnet with the terrorist tips and numbers to call.
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smeg; the online church of smeg: Welcome into our humble entryway. My my, this is a rather large group we have coming in at the moment. Are we all members? No, I see some new faces too. Well, for our new visitors may I suggest a tour of the church, to aquaint yourself with The First Church of Smeg and to introduce you to our ways of worship.
maternal grandfather Cherokee (native american)
maternal grandmother Irish-English
paternal grandfather English
paternal grandmother French/Canadian
for the aged among us who still remember;
Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Anymore
© John Prine
While digesting Reader's Digest
In the back of a dirty book store,
A plastic flag, with gum on the back,
Fell out on the floor.
Well, I picked it up and I ran outside
Slapped it on my window shield,
And if I could see old Betsy Ross
I'd tell her how good I feel.
Chorus:
But your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
They're already overcrowded
From your dirty little war.
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
And your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
Well, I went to the bank this morning
And the cashier he said to me,
"If you join the Christmas club
We'll give you ten of them flags for free."
Well, I didn't mess around a bit
I took him up on what he said.
And I stuck them stickers all over my car
And one on my wife's forehead.
Repeat Chorus:
Well, I got my window shield so filled
With flags I couldn't see.
So, I ran the car upside a curb
And right into a tree.
By the time they got a doctor down
I was already dead.
And I'll never understand why the man
Standing in the Pearly Gates said...
"But your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
We're already overcrowded
From your dirty little war.
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
And your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more."
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"facts" so many times are the ones selected by the user to support his agenda.
nominal=thats really a huge car
operational= that car is 11' 4" long 5' 4" wide and weighs 2 1/2 tons
On virtually every topic i have followed on this forum from literature to politics there has been almost immediate discord when terms of nominal definition creep into the discourse. Nominal terms lack any kind of context from which dialogue can emerge with clarity. From democracy to fine dining, when we lack operational definitions we promote confusion which leads to conflict. More notable are usage of terms like "liberal" or "conservative". Value laden words without intrinsic value of communication render the debate futile allowing for only further polarization in defense of the words used rather than understanding. If we want to promote ideas, perspectives and understandings we have to start with a language of carefully crafted meaning. "Those damn SUV's that take over the road" is a nominal charge without value because SUV's come in all sizes.
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ok already, prechance i have shot meself in the foot with this but what i was thinking is that with nominal verbage the receiver must attempt understanding based on who the sender is; If Lola in a post said "Dys, thats a fairly liberal statement" i would have a totally different response than if some other person made the same comment. with nominal usage sans clairty conflict soon arises due to differences in understanding. any better?
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i think there is an element of truth in that but what i am refering to is more in terms of value laden words that have no operational (concrete) definition that are all too often bandied about, we might in common discourse refer to someone as "crazy" with a common understanding but it is still quite nominal in not implying a DSM diagnosis. Forums, i think even more than common conversation, do require more precise usage of language to prevent the oft times seen flaming, vitriolic exchanges, "conservatives are war mongers" "liberals are pansy-assed do-gooders" etc etc etc. (not to say that i am above all that)
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this song always brings bob to mind
well, I'd like to see, from this day forward, a cybernetic desertscape where the pot holes are filled with crystal clear snowmelt.with toads and fish squiggling out of the mud and succulents leaking their waxwing buds of yellow and rose and cerulean blue. rocks the size of baseballs making their way across miles and miles of nothing but miles and mikes of wind formed sandstoned sculptured waves moving inch by inch for eons. A pair of mountain goats with magnetic hooves clinging as if to a refrigerator door holding tomorrows lunch menu. The rocks chipped and spitting flashes of agate and turquoise, a shard near a joshua tree, a galvanized tub of ice with a magnum of Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame, 2 crystal flutes and an uncut camembert. One lone raven riding a thermal shifts his eyes back and forth between jackrabbit's nose jutting from behind a fallen pinon tree and my face.
regarding rules of engagement-uniforms. one of the main reasons for the use of uniforms in war was to easily identify deserters so they could be shot in the act.
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We live in a world where everyone has their own news sources. We have CNN for mainstream American news junkies, Al Jazeera for the Arab audience, BBC to xenophiles, numerous "ethnic media" outlets for different races in this country and FOX News for angry white people. Everyone with any opinion has their own 'unbiased' news source to feed them soothing messages. Meanwhile there is a whole world of things happening that we don't see and really have no hope of understanding.
Johnson is somewhat of an enigma to me, he was a damn good politician (getting done what he wanted done) and according to recent information knew Vietnam was a disaster. his civil rights inititive was outstanding and he wrote off the south at risk to himself.
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same can be said on Nixon, he accomplished some amazing things and if he had not been psycho it might be a different world today.
You guys are a hoot, vesting intellectual prowess in celebs regardless of their bent is beyond inane. My plumber probably has more political insight than the typical hollyweirder. To pay heed to the offerings of such ilk says a great deal more about their audience than about their wisdom. PeeWee Herman to Charlton Heston, yikes, the motley crew of americana.
loss of "self" while perhaps valued in some esoteric circles, denotes disassociation rather than integration with "other."
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aside; when i write stories that are historical events from my life i use another name and write in the third person, it helps me to have a more objective narrative view.
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i am only thinking that as we face the reality of the really big we, there is that coming face to face with the I and the Thou.
interesting responses, yes i have had sex on the first date, but in every case it was her idea not mine ( i didn't object)
Quote:US space agency (Nasa) officials say there was probably nothing that could have been done to save the crew of Columbia, even if mission control had fully realised the jeopardy the astronauts were in.
ok so you are among the crew and NASA observes the conditions prior to re-entry, would you want to know?
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ok now put yourself in a seat in Houston or Cape Kennedy in radio contact with the shuttle and you know their fate. How would you cope with that knowledge?
if thinking is defined as a way of reasoning and/or judgement then yes of course there are computers that can think.
um well i am an idealist, i would immediately offer food, fuel, medical services sans any conditions, i would also encourage other nations especially in the bordering nations (japan-china-S korea) to do the same. as the living conditions imporved i would begin talks with N. Korea as to how continued aid and support could be negotiated with concessions for arms reduction and international integration. but, like i said, i am a knee-jerk liberal idealist.
after careful review of that most excellent historical analysis by DH Lawrence "The Man Who Died" i have concluded that yes indeed jesus had sex but it did come later in life.
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"boinking" was originated with the invention of the Model T Ford.
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i thought i had straightened this out in a previous thread, you know where i explained that at the age of 13 jesus moved to Rome, hung out down by 23 skiddo, married an italian chick, had a bunch of kids, never got a job, busted by the cops for stealing a load of bread and 3 sardines, marriage annulled by the Pope cause he was a jew but hit hard with child support, moved back to Jerusalem, hung with the homies, when way rad on the establishment, pissed off the elders, got hit with the 3 times and your out rule and finally hung out to dry. But when he got past all that he was GOD.
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condoms? never use them I'm immaculate!
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talk about the earth moving, whew
might makes right
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cdk- re might makes right- just my thoughts but it seems to me that the spectre of losing Vietnam was a major ego blip on the conservative agenda-loss of face in the race for military might. the new agenda involves restoration of might/power--all Bush needed was a winable conflict (Grenada-Panama was not a grand enough stage) without a dialectic post USSR enemies have to be created in order to establish power.
my motto is "if i can't fix it, its not really broke, its just resting"
or
"if it don't fit, you need a bigger hammer"
the use of the label "christian"
the use of the label "conservative"
and then requesting a correlation verges on idiocy not unlike use of the term "american" with the term "vegatarian." any correlation is spurious on a good day, asinine on a bad day. the term "values" is vague to the extreme of having no intrinsic meaning for reference.
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well at the risk of being dissed again, i must offer that there is no such critter as "conservative" or "christian" values. Ranging from the 3 Catholic nuns sitting in prison here in Colorado for trespass at a missle silo, Penitente's still offering human crucifictions on Easter, Quakers resolute that all war is evil, Amish that regard electicity as sin, Southern Baptists that are still waging the Civil War, Mormons practicing polygamy with child brides, snake handlers in Alabama, the Pope in the Vatican praying agaist Bush's war in Iraq, Methodists as CEO's of fradulent corportations--the list goes on.
as far as "conservative" values, again the range is from manipulation of public services for profit, interference in the private lives of citizens, minimizing potentials of minorites, religious intolerance, xenophobia and wanton disregrard for the environment--the list goes on.
What is interesting is that i could make an equivalent list for liberals but polarization of personalities limits reasonable discourse. the us vs them mentality excludes rationality.
my father, aged 78, is in the process of firing his 3rd lawn service in 2 yrs, the reason? he wants the lawn only mowed on fridays because he thinks its important to the neighbors to have a trim looking lawn on the weekends.
or only burn candles in the daylight and they will not have to give off as much light thereby they will last longer.
as a former very small rancher/farmer that raised my own beef/pork/lamb/veggies i would guess that what i grew was 90% organic. i did use antibiotics against common ailments as well as traditional/folk treatments (a lump of coal fed to pigs cures worms) cost is a major factor. the last time i kept track of costs a butchered steer in the freezer cost me about $1.18 lb but a market steer brought $.89 at auction. when the consumer decides that quality overrides cost the small trational farmer/rancher may have a chance but the potential for that happening is rapidly disappearing as corporate farms/livestock has destroyed almost all family farms in the west. as long as the consumer will spend $3,000 for a big screen T.V. but seek the discount hamburger, well you get what you want and thats what you got.
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regarding divorce-been there done that- but i would say that in this era people are not dependent to remain in a marriage as they have in the past. the old "thru thick and thin" was all too often shackles of dispair and loneliness, abuse and sorrow, grief and pain sanctioned by the church and state. Life is too damn short and fragile to live it out in misery without simple joy. just my opinion, i could be wrong.
the scent and taste of a woman is the only one that works for me
As i child protection team worker i had an occassion to be involved in a case where a young lady had 4 previous children removed from her custody for extreme violence and neglect resulting in death of two of her children, she had become pregnant again. In conference with a judge, always sensitive to legal implications, it was decided that the judge would issue me a warrant for custody of expected child upon delivery dated and timed at the point of delivery. (my only experience witnissing birth of a child). The point being that courts are very sensitive about legal precedence in this area of law.
a hoola hoop with a nail in it is a navel destroyer
ahem: fine people of all persuasions, there is the obvious in all this and its really quite simple, its called laws and conventions, there are rules and the US helped create those rules regardless of what others do or not do, we are either a nation of law or we are international outlaws. to refer of Viet Nam or Afghanistan or Israel for that matter is not of our concern.
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by resorting to the techniques of the enemy we lower ourselves to their level. that is not what america is all about. the price of a free and democratic nation is the many guilty go free so that no innocent are convicted. we should always be willing to pay that price.
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steissd, perhaps you are not aware that the US helped to write the conventions of war/treatment of POW's, if there are violiations, they are violations of our own sense of fairness and civility regardless of the enemy. when we make the laws we are indebted to obey them.
velvetta topped with spam on rainbow bread heated in the toaster oven.
steissd that legal procedure you mention is what makes america unique in the world, our demand for personal freedom, against other nations, against other governments, against our own government, against each other is what defines us as a nation. while not the most efficient system for governance, thats the price we gladly pay to live free. our judical systems is based in the idea that it is worth the price of letting a guilty man go free in order to avoid the innocent being convicted. while this may seem odd to citizens of other nations, it works for us.
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manajuana: "doesn't all of this begin to look like anarchy?"
i think not, anarchy stems from the belief that
no man is wise enough to be another man's master. Each man's as good as the
next--if not a damn sight better. but thats just my opinion, i might be wrong Wink
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mamajuana re anarchy i have to admit to being an idealist in all matters of human discourse ergo i see anarchism thru rose colored eyes.Wink
the christian jihad is a far more dangerous critter
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i stand corrected and thats what i meant to say
i had to come back to this topic and edit after pondering what i said earlier and why i said it. i think Bush/Ashcroft as essentially trashed the name of the vast majority of substantial Christian like people (i mean that in the most positive way) its not unlike what has happened to the people of Islam who have been bashed because of a extreme minority. what we now see on the media, read in the press is the Bush/Ashcroft/Falwell/Hobson fanatics that easily lead to a presumption of "christians" all being of the same ilk..and for that Viz i humbly apologize.
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a couple of years ago i was in Spain on the costa del sol surrounded by Brits and Germans on holiday. i hopped on a local bus heading into the hills and farmlands a few hours inland and got off the bus in the center of a small village of perhaps 1,000 people. In the center of the town was a small outdoor cafe where i sat alone at a table in the shade with a coffee when along came a man returning to his house from the fields where he had spent the morning. He sat down beside me and had a glass of wine and asked where i was from. When i told him i was american (this was shortly after 9/11) he just shook his head and said something about the world had gone mad and then told me about his fields of vegetables that he grew and sold in the market down in Malaga. We sat their talking for about an hour and then he stood up and said to me, come then to my house and we shall eat. we walked the block or so to his home and he introduced me to his wife and told her i was staying for lunch, she smiled broadly showed me her very modern kitchen that she was very proud of. we ate and ate and then ate dessert with much wine and then went into the living room which was without roof but walled in like any other room with a fireplace in the corner and tile floors and plants everywhere and the told my about their children who were all off and married and living in the city,they showed me the pictures of their grandchildren and they laughed at my coyboy hat and boots and called me Clint Eastwood. we spend the afternoon drinking their homemade wine and talking of the children and the world they were about to inherit and they had fear in their voices as they talked about the changing world. about sundown i caught the bus back to the city where i sat on the beach wall and watched the tourists coming up the beach to their hotels and wonder why they had come so far and only talked with each other about where they could get their English dinner or their German dinner. It was a good day for me and was an example of why i travel.
a couple of thoughts, one is that they are in dire straights economically and would like to get some major concessions such as trade, economic development and humantarian assistance but with an ego of the bully they are responding to the Bush pronouncement including them in the "axis of evil" (kind of a school yard mentality between the US and N.K.) another thought is that N.K. seems to have an attitude of intimidation towards S.K./Japan which they would like to use as a fear factor in negotiations. third i think that N.K. not unlike Cuba has become a very isolated nation without much support from China or the old Soviets and is quite simply stamping their foot demanding attention. i stand by none of these as other than simple observations.
everyone in my family is allergic to orange juice (all citrus juices)
Just a personal observation but i have noticed on several topics lately a variety of opinions expressed leading me to conclude that we often extrapolate and then generalize what america is from a reference made of our own regions (myself included). i often think of the east coast from Boston to Washington D.C. as people who barely recognize that they are not in toto america. this is most likely my own bias however, i do see others every bit as myopic as I.
Despite the renaissance of regionalism, despite the ever-growing sophistication with which we can study and measure regional characteristics, many discussions of region, popular and academic, seem to revolve around an extraordinarily persistent set of assumptions. One assumption is that regional identity is, at heart, an inheritance from the past, a moral and intellectual "heritage" that, if it is to endure, must be preserved from the ravages of modern life. To many people, it appears that there was a time in the past when each region was most fully itself: the Old South, the Old West, pristine New England. Since then, we are told, there has been a relentless adulteration and watering down of these places by the forces of modern life.
Another assumption is that the North, South, and West naturally developed out of variations in the American landscape. Regional differences in people appear to be reflections of regional differences in land and climate. Americans tend to think in nature metaphors--cold, rocky New England creating cold, rocky New Englanders; hot and humid Dixie creating hot-tempered men and dewy women; the big skies and wide-open spaces of the West creating independent men and self-sufficient women. When people warn of the demise of regions they usually couch their warning in images of landscapes lost, of battlefields desecrated, of paradise paved. To lose distinctive features of the land is to lose the depth and salience of region, most of us assume. Any thoughts?
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as you have all pointed out there are lots of examples here in america. i first really became overtly aware of this when last year i spent 2 months in Rhode Island and in carrying into my apartment my saddle rifle (winchester 94) as the neighbors watched this obvious cowboy with hat and boots to match, not to mention the hair down my back, then finding the SWAT team surrounding me. I realized that what was a common ordinary sight in the southwest was an entirely different creature in New England.
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timberlandko; i was really agast mostly just because i could not fathom why they came and what i had done. they had a bit of interrogation with ID's, checking on their radios searching my truck etc. then i began to complain saying "am i being detained and if so for what reason?" so they left but parked across the street for the rest of the day. i finished my job contract and left Rhode Island headed out for western skies. just another learning experience i guess.
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scrat all media has bias, primarily due to sales, but when a media like FOX constantly tells us they are NOT biased "we report-you decide" its a dead giveaway that they are biased, everyone knows the NY Times slant and the other major news sources that are left-right or down the middle and it is encumbant on the reader to make what use of it they may and yes we radical socialist liberals jest at Faux news while you on the far right whine about the liberal press. mostly i would say to everyone "get over it"
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i simply think that its a given that all media are biased usually towards their market. FOX news has carved out the angry white man as their market and it works for them
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to add to what i posted the "market" is not necessarily the population of city but like all advertising based media from CNN to NYT its the marketable audience that is aimed for just as in prime time CBS-NBC-ABC is aimed (i assume) at the 25 to 45 yr old and not the total available population-J Leno seeks advertising $$ oriented towards a specific demographic as does every media FOX aims at a market audience of middle class middle aged angry white men and succeeds very well whereas CNN is rethinking its target audience (and probably losing more than gaining) and as Craven said no one is changed by the bias, university profs in the liberal arts are bound to be liberal, profs teaching in the business dept are more likely to be conservative.
