bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 01:06 pm
@coldjoint,
Didn't you see all the funny Bush salutes and a photo where President W IGNORES a Marine salute? Why are you so hung up about Presidential salutes??
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 01:08 pm
@coldjoint,
More insults, best you can do. Think about it: this is the best issue you can come up with. Things must be pretty damn good!
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 01:44 pm

WASHINGTON (MCT) — The air war in Syria and Iraq has already cost nearly $1 billion and ultimately could cost as much as $22 billion per year if a large ground force is deployed to the region
http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/cost-of-air-war-against-islamic-state-already-near-1-billion-as-strategy-shifts-1.305511



Feb 7, 2014

On Friday, President Obama added his signature to legislation that will cut $8.7 billion in food stamp benefits over the next 10 years, causing 850,000 households to lose an average of $90 per month. The signing of the legislation known as the 2014 Farm Bill occurred at a public event in East Lansing, Mich.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-signs-food-stamp-cut


$90 per month is a lot of money to people who need food

That is such a pittance for the federal government, why did they do that?

To save money?

They cannot be serious that ISIS is so much more important that 850,000 Americans who are starving.

All of a sudden, money is no problem.

Where are the debt conscious Republicans that just wouldn't shut up before?

Imagine a headline, "ISIS causes 850,000 Americans to go hungry"

Imagine the outrage from the corporate media




http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/cost-of-air-war-against-islamic-state-already-near-1-billion-as-strategy-shifts-1.305511

From Stars and Stripes - you guys claim to support the troops....

Cost of air war against Islamic State already near $1 billion as strategy shifts
By Tom Vanden Brook
USA Today
Published: September 28, 2014

http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.305513.1411932970!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_240/image.jpg

F-15E Strike Eagle
A pair of U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagles fly over northern Iraq early in the morning of Sept. 23, 2014, after conducting airstrikes in Syria.
Matthew Bruch/USAF

WASHINGTON (MCT) — The air war in Syria and Iraq has already cost nearly $1 billion and ultimately could cost as much as $22 billion per year if a large ground force is deployed to the region, according to an analysis by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

The study, due to be released Monday, shows a range of costs based on sustained but low-intensity combat up to a force of 25,000 U.S. troops on the ground.

President Obama and the Pentagon have ruled out the the use of American boots on the ground, making the most expensive option the least likely. Yet as Todd Harrison, the lead author points out, war is "an unpredictable enterprise" and the ability to forecast its costs is limited.

Meanwhile, there are signs that the war may be shifting toward lower-intensity conflict. Already, pilots are finding fewer Islamic State buildings and infrastructure to destroy in Syria, hoping to pick off smaller enemy targets as they pop up, according to senior Defense Department officials. The Islamic State is also known as ISIL.

The move to combat patrols from mass attack to individual targets — a process called "dynamic targeting" by the military — is reflected in types of bombs and missiles fired. It also stems from the fact that, for all its bravado of claiming a caliphate over a broad tract of the Middle East, the Islamic State has few trappings of a traditional government — buildings, utilities or bridges, for instance.

The initial attacks last Monday focused on headquarters buildings, communication antennas and a terror training camp and barracks. Air Force planners, based on images provided by spy planes, identified targets in Syria. But a Defense official who was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing campaign said there are few fixed targets left for U.S. forces to strike.

An airstrike Friday could well be the template for the foreseeable future, the official said. Two U.S. F-15 fighters and two F-15s from Saudi Arabia were patrolling the sky over Syria when four tanks pilfered by Islamic State fighters were spotted. The jets promptly destroyed them.

Air Force pilots dropped 59 bombs in Syria with laser sensors that allow them to track and destroy vehicles traveling even at highway speeds, data from the Air Force show. The Air Force also fired 44 Hellfire missiles, which are often fired by Predator and Reaper drones. Both unmanned aircraft have been flying missions in Syria.

Over the weekend, U.S. and coalition forces fired on ISIL tanks, armored vehicles, checkpoints and safehouses, among other targets in Iraq and Syria, the U.S. Central Command said in a statement Sunday.

Harrison's estimate for this type of war, with about 2,000 U.S. troops on the ground in a support and advisory capacity, could cost up to $320 million per month, or $3.8 billion per year.

The early assessments show the strikes were successful, damaging or destroying the sites that were chosen, according to a senior officer who was not authorized to speak publicly.

While it may be more difficult, and airstrikes grow less frequent, significant damage has been inflicted the Defense Department official said. The presence of U.S. and allied warplanes means IS fighters will have more difficulty communicating, resupplying fighters in Iraq and moving on the battlefield.

Destroying the Islamic State, as Obama's strategy calls for, will require ground forces to re-capture territory and a legitimate government to hold it.

Ground forces will make the decisive difference against ISIL fighters, Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters Friday. Preferably not U.S. boots on the ground, he said.

"If you're suggesting that I might, at some point, recommend that we need a large ground force to counter ISIL, the answer to that is also absolutely," Dempsey said. "But it doesn't have to be Americans. In fact, ideally, for the kind of issues we're confronting there, the ideal force — in fact, the only truly effective force that will actually be able to reject ISIL from within its own population, is a force comprised of Iraqis and Kurds and moderate Syrian opposition."

House Speaker John Boehner, appearing on ABC's This Week Sunday, said that if no other nation can provide the needed troops for an on-the-ground force, he would support sending U.S. troops. "We have no choice," Boehner said. "These are barbarians. They intend to kill us. And if we don't destroy them first, we're gonna pay the price."

U.S. troops would also be expensive. A force of 25,000, backed by airpower, would cost as much as $1.8 billion per month, or as much as $22 billion per year, according to Harrison's estimate. The ground force accounts for 80% of those costs.

©2014 USA Today
Visit USA Today at www.usatoday.com
Distributed by MCT Information Services

At the same time - and these are also a sizable contingent of military families:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-signs-food-stamp-cut

President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law
02/07/14 03:40 PM—Updated 08/25/14 09:29 AM
facebook twitter 9 save share group 568
By Ned Resnikoff

On Friday, President Obama added his signature to legislation that will cut $8.7 billion in food stamp benefits over the next 10 years, causing 850,000 households to lose an average of $90 per month. The signing of the legislation known as the 2014 Farm Bill occurred at a public event in East Lansing, Mich.

NewsNation with Tamron Hall, 2/7/14, 3:02 PM ET
Pres. Obama signs Farm Bill
The food stamp cuts are one component of a massive omnibus bill which also includes billions of dollars in crop insurance and various other programs and subsidies involving American agriculture. Before he signed the legislation, President Obama praised it as an example of bipartisan problem-solving that would help create jobs and move the American economy forward.

“Congress passed a bipartisan Farm Bill that is going to make a big difference in communities across the country,” said the president.

Obama’s remarks also focused heavily on economic inequality, which he has previously called “the defining challenge of our time.” The Farm Bill, he said, would “give more Americans a shot at opportunity.”

When House Republicans originally argued for a food stamp cut of between $20.5 billion and $39 billion, the White House threatened to veto both of those proposals. During his Friday speech, the president did not say whether he was satisfied with the final $8.7 billion figure, or even mention the cuts at all. Instead, he praised the food stamp program and said that the final Farm Bill preserved much-needed benefits.

Related: The hunger crisis in America’s universities

msnbc Live, 2/7/14, 3:40 PM ET
Farm bill is hurting our neediest citizens
“My position has always been that any Farm Bill I sign must include protections for vulnerable Americans, and thanks to the hard work of [Senate Agriculture Committee chair Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich] and others, it does just that,” he said.

Stabenow, who played a key role in Farm Bill negotiations, fully embraced the cuts in a speech delivered shortly before the president took the stage.

“This is a nutrition bill that makes sure families have a safety net just like farmers do,” she said. “The savings in food assistance came solely from addressing fraud and misuse while maintaining the important benefits for families that need temporary help.”

Speaking to reporters on Air Force One before the speech, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack made much the same point, saying that the $8.7 billion cut “probably makes the program more legitimate than it was.”

In fact, the benefits reduction would eliminate the state-level “Heat and Eat” policies currently employed in 15 states and Washington, D.C. Left-wing opponents of the Farm Bill, including Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., expect the burden of burden of the cuts to fall disproportionately on the elderly and disabled.

“Poor people are getting screwed by this Republican majority [in the House] and Democrats in my opinion aren’t doing enough to push back,” he said. “I wish there had been more of a fight from the White House and others.”

McGovern also admitted to being “puzzled” by the White House’s silence on hunger and food stamp cuts. He predicted that Republicans’ success in getting a several billion dollar food stamp cut meant that they would soon try again for even more.

“They know they can’t get a $40 billion cut right off the bat, so what they’re doing is they’re chipping away at it,” he said.


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 01:52 pm
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

More insults, best you can do. Think about it: this is the best issue you can come up with. Things must be pretty damn good!


Obama's lack of respect for the military is a big story. Robert Gates conformed this in his book when he talks about how Obama allowed idiots on the WH staff who know next to nothing about the military or global affairs consistently lead policy and inject themselves into to day to day operation of the DOD. The exit from Iraq, the massive slashing of DOD budgets, and this idiotic air war against ISIS were all Obama decisions taken against the strident objection of military commanders. The problem with the ISIS war is that it can not be won without effective ground troops loyal to our side, which we dont have and dont look likely to get, so Obama has ordered a war that we will lose. The Military also know that they will not get this war all funded with dedicated funds, that they are going to have to go rob other already deeply cut and depleated accounts to pay for this war.
parados
 
  3  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:16 pm
@coldjoint,
A President has to "earn" your respect? That statement shows how little respect you have for your country.
parados
 
  3  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
I guess the founders didn't have any respect for the military since they are the ones that created civilian control of the military. To whine because civilians have control of the military shows a failure to understand US history.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:23 pm
@parados,
Did you respect Bush when he was in office or did he have to earn your respect?

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:24 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I guess the founders didn't have any respect for the military since they are the ones that created civilian control of the military. To whine because civilians have control of the military shows a failure to understand US history.


Where did you learn to read? How about you try again, maybe you will this time understand what I wrote.
parados
 
  3  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:25 pm
@Baldimo,
I didn't disrespect him because he won the office. It was his actions that earned my disrespect. Actions that would apply the same to every one.
parados
 
  3  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
You wrote that Obama disrespected the military because he allowed civilians to make decisions about the military. That was pretty clear.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:31 pm
@parados,
Obama is in the same boat. His actions have earned him no respect from me.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:35 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I guess the founders didn't have any respect for the military since they are the ones that created civilian control of the military. To whine because civilians have control of the military shows a failure to understand US history.


Exactly!

Why anyone would oppose, or have significant problem with, civilian control of the military is beyond me. I would hate to live in a country where the opposite were the case.

Hawk, I think you are allowing your intense dislike of Obama to cloud your thinking on this one.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I think what he is refing to is this... Civilian control of the military is an issue when the non-military people want to tell the military how to fight a war. That is the issue. They want things done a certain way but know nothing about how the military works.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
At a March 3, 2011, National Security Council meeting, Gates writes, the president opened with a “blast.” Obama criticized the military for “popping off in the press” and said he would push back hard against any delay in beginning the withdrawal.

According to Gates, Obama concluded, “ ‘If I believe I am being gamed . . .’ and left the sentence hanging there with the clear implication the consequences would be dire.”

Gates continues: “I was pretty upset myself. I thought implicitly accusing” Petraeus, and perhaps Mullen and Gates himself, “of gaming him in front of thirty people in the Situation Room was inappropriate, not to mention highly disrespectful of Petraeus. As I sat there, I thought: the president doesn’t trust his commander, can’t stand [Afghanistan President Hamid] Karzai, doesn’t believe in his own strategy, and doesn’t consider the war to be his. For him, it’s all about getting out.”

Lack of trust is a major thread in Gates’s account, along with his unsparing criticism of Obama’s aides. At times, the two threads intertwine. For example, after the devastating 2010 Haitian earthquake that had left tens of thousands dead, Gates met with Obama and Donilon, the deputy national security adviser, about disaster relief.

Donilon was “complaining about how long we were taking,” Gates writes. “Then he went too far, questioning in front of the president and a roomful of people whether General [Douglas] Fraser [head of the U.S. Southern Command] was competent to lead this effort. I’ve rarely been angrier in the Oval Office than I was at that moment. . . . My initial instinct was to storm out, telling the president on the way that he didn’t need two secretaries of defense. It took every bit of my self-discipline to stay seated on the sofa.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/robert-gates-former-defense-secretary-offers-harsh-critique-of-obamas-leadership-in-duty/2014/01/07/6a6915b2-77cb-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:56 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

I think what he is refing to is this... Civilian control of the military is an issue when the non-military people want to tell the military how to fight a war. That is the issue. They want things done a certain way but know nothing about how the military works.


I understand what you are saying, Baldimo, but I honestly do not think Obama or his advisers are "telling the military how to fight a war."

The administration is, in my opinion, exercising the political prerogatives inherent in civilian control of the military.

If the CIC's decision is that certain military action is necessary in an attempt to contain something like ISIS (or IS, ISIL) then military action proceeds. If the military tells the CIC that "boots on the ground" is a necessity for a favorable outcome...then CIC must take that into consideration. But that cannot be compelling upon the civilian decision making.

Just about every war president has been offered conflicting advice on how to proceed...what will work...what will not. They accept and heed some...and reject others.

Many civilian leaders intruded into the mechanics of war (Hitler and Churchill come immediately to mind). That is the way civilian control of the military works. If the military has the final say...there is no civilian control.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:57 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

You wrote that Obama disrespected the military because he allowed civilians to make decisions about the military. That was pretty clear.


He has disrespected the military in many ways, to include disregarding their advice, and not respecting their expertise.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 02:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
At a March 3, 2011, National Security Council meeting, Gates writes, the president opened with a “blast.” Obama criticized the military for “popping off in the press” and said he would push back hard against any delay in beginning the withdrawal.

According to Gates, Obama concluded, “ ‘If I believe I am being gamed . . .’ and left the sentence hanging there with the clear implication the consequences would be dire.”

Gates continues: “I was pretty upset myself. I thought implicitly accusing” Petraeus, and perhaps Mullen and Gates himself, “of gaming him in front of thirty people in the Situation Room was inappropriate, not to mention highly disrespectful of Petraeus. As I sat there, I thought: the president doesn’t trust his commander, can’t stand [Afghanistan President Hamid] Karzai, doesn’t believe in his own strategy, and doesn’t consider the war to be his. For him, it’s all about getting out.”

Lack of trust is a major thread in Gates’s account, along with his unsparing criticism of Obama’s aides. At times, the two threads intertwine. For example, after the devastating 2010 Haitian earthquake that had left tens of thousands dead, Gates met with Obama and Donilon, the deputy national security adviser, about disaster relief.

Donilon was “complaining about how long we were taking,” Gates writes. “Then he went too far, questioning in front of the president and a roomful of people whether General [Douglas] Fraser [head of the U.S. Southern Command] was competent to lead this effort. I’ve rarely been angrier in the Oval Office than I was at that moment. . . . My initial instinct was to storm out, telling the president on the way that he didn’t need two secretaries of defense. It took every bit of my self-discipline to stay seated on the sofa.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/robert-gates-former-defense-secretary-offers-harsh-critique-of-obamas-leadership-in-duty/2014/01/07/6a6915b2-77cb-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html


And that is Gates' opinion. Thank you for sharing his opinion with us...but all it is...is Gates' opinion.

I am sure if you were to ask President Obama...he would be of a different opinion.

I am sticking with Obama on this one...obviously you are not.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 03:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't get the lack of respect thing, especially if its mainly about the latte salute. I showed you example of the W Scotty salute and the no return salute. I was in the military. One of my best memories was at machinist mate "A" school at Great Lakes, Bill Fannon taps me as we're walking somewhere and says, "watch this!" And salutes an officer on a bicycle with a brief case in his left hand, the officer returns and crashes his bike. Good times. I've seen all sorts of salutes from other Presidents and posted them and a ton of Presidential umbrella photos and if thats the best squeal the RW can come up with about this President, its only BS. Because it didn't seem that bothersome about every President. Especially these days when the press only wants gotcha shot.

Like half-Governor Palin pointed out recently, things are kinda crazy up there at 1400 Pennsylvania, aren't they? Yuk yuk yuk!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 03:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

parados wrote:

You wrote that Obama disrespected the military because he allowed civilians to make decisions about the military. That was pretty clear.


He has disrespected the military in many ways, to include disregarding their advice, and not respecting their expertise.


We have heard this same nonsense from conservatives about Kennedy, Carter and Clinton.

It is blather, in my opinion.

He is exercising the prerogatives of the office to which he was elected by the people of the United States. People like you who wish there were a Dick Cheney to ride herd on him and offer good, solid advice on how to run the office are just out of luck. It is about time you all realize that.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 03:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
When you task the military with fighting a war or even an engagement, you need to let them fight it. No PC BS on what or who ROE covers and who it doesn't.

When I think of WWII, I see an engagement where the military was turned loose to do what they do best. Since the times of Vietnam, we haven't let the fighters do the fighting. Politicians dip their fingers in the well and then make decisions on how wars are fought. EVERY President has done this since Vietnam.

Bush did it in Iraq towards the beginning of the war. Remember the fighting that took place at a Mosque? We were getting shot at, and were not allowed to return fire because it was a mosque, we didn't want to piss off the locals. According to rules of engagement, the minute they opened fire from that mosque, we should have brought it down on their heads. Don't want your mosques destroyed? Don't start a fire fight from one.
 

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