Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

@firefly,

I'm not talking about the incident or the trial except insofar that what happens is a signifier of much more important matters. The very fact that you use language such as "very serious violent felony crimes against a stranger" tells me where you are coming from. What words do you use about some of the really bad things we hear about? What have you left but hyperbole fanciful enough to be suspect. Anything that happens between two people in a luxury hotel where nobody has been treated for any injuries is trivial in my book.

It is you who is having irrelevant flights of fancy. That is easily proved by your lack of interest in much more serious incidents a few of which I have drawn attention to. You're on the DSK case for no other reason than to wing your views. I'm on Media's case.

I understand the difficulty of course. Women are divine creatures and deserving of the utmost in propitiations in order that they grant their favours to the suitors. And would that we could. But today's propitiation is tomorrow's cold potatoes. I do hope you know that ff.

The knights in the Courts of Love acquiesed which is why the Dark Ages are hidden from view. Look at the Knight of the Doleful Countenance. His uxoriousness towards Dulcinea del Toboso, a fish kettle wench at best, led him into many a degrading humiliation. And Cervantes is miles too good a writer not be be constructing an allegory. Quixote is a laughing stock. His chivalry is out the other side of sanity. We bottled it up for laughs so that you, my dear, could enjoy the lifestyle that has been handed you on a plate.

Do you think my expression Ladymedia has validity?

And the most utterly ironic aspect of the whole thing is that women find men who give in to them too easily contemptible; as well they might. Such men are women's greatest enemy. They do propitiations with words. Unctuous greaseballs I have heard them called.

This case is like a thermometer. One might read off the current state of the mixture. And work out who is turning the gas up. And who is fleeing waving the white flag.

But it bankrupts us. Women must have their limitless vanity checked and there is only men or catastrophe to do it. In their own interests. There's a Poppaea Sabina in all of them.

And the subject here is women's vanity.

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@hawkeye10,

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right...if she would have screamed, and if staff had come running and tried to save her but could not because the swing bar had been swung close, then a new charge might have made sense. But that did not happen so the jury should disregard this charge.

How you think she should have reacted to the door being locked, is unrelated to whether or not he locked the door, and then physically restrained her so she could not leave. Similarly, it is not up to you to decide whether the jury should just "disregard" any charge--particularly since you have not heard the evidence in support of that charge.

This is all meaningless speculation, and unrelated to the reality of what will take place at trial. All you are doing is engaging in fantasy because you refuse to acknowledge that the charges against him might have legitimacy. That he might well have committed the acts with which he has been charged is a distinct possibly, and you have no evidence to the contrary.

Why are you unwilling to wait for the trial to actually hear the evidence in this case and to see how the defense will argue against that evidence?

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@firefly,

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All you are doing is engaging in fantasy because you refuse to acknowledge that the charges against him might have legitimacy. That he might well have committed the acts with which he has been charged is a distinct possibly, and you have no evidence to the contrary.

Yes sir Firefly 62 years old international finance experts on coming out of hotels showers commonly just randomly jump and sexually assaults thirty something maids that they find in their rooms.

Could it had happen well anything is possible however is it at all likely to had happen hell no.

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@firefly,

I'm quite willing to admit that DSK might be guilty. I'm not interested in the matter. It is all the reflex actions I am interested in. They have real significance whatever the result of any trial or deal. They are real facts of great importance.

If men and women are not segregated, or at least chaperoned, these things will happen. Thus, and this is easy, those who are against such procedures are causing assaults on women. So there's a deal. Economic benefit and taking the risk. So assaults on women are taking place for money. It's like you can't take responsibility for your own actions and a scapegoat is sought to expiate the guilt.

The vanity equation is given piquancy by the polarity of the social position of the protagonists.

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@firefly,

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How you think she should have reacted to the door being locked, is unrelated to whether or not he locked the door, and then physically restrained her so she could not leave. Similarly, it is not up to you to decide whether the jury should just "disregard" any charge--particularly since you have not heard the evidence in support of that charge

it is physically impossible for what DSK is accused of doing to hinder her leaving the room, we have no way to find out if what she said he did is what happened, and it did not in anyway alter the course of events if it did happen as charged....thus the jury should disregard the claim that he swung the latch as not provable and not relevant. I dont need to hear any evidence, as I know what this piece of metal can do and not do.

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@firefly,

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Why are you unwilling to wait for the trial to actually hear the evidence in this case and to see how the defense will argue against that evidence?

Primarily because I do not believe in the American "Justice" system, want to see it reformed, and thus it is in my political best interest to point out the injustice generated towards DSK (and by proxy all of us) as it happens.

We are all DSK

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@hawkeye10,

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Primarily because I do not believe in the American "Justice" system, want to see it reformed,

You mean you want to toss out the jury system?

Just what legal irregularities have you noted thus far in this case?

He has been lawfully and legally arrested, indicted, and arraigned, and has entered a not guilty plea. He is out on bail, under house arrest. That is all that has
happened in this case thus far.

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We are all DSK

Only when we are formally charged with crimes. And, thus far, DSK has been treated exactly like everyone else charged with crimes. There are indignities involved when one is arrested and charged with criminal acts, but these are not "injustices". Thus far, the legal proceedings are following due process. Absolutely nothing "unjust" is going on, and his defense team will work to make sure it remains that way..

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it is in my political best interest to...

Right, it's always about you, isn't it?

Given your attitudes about the sexual assault laws, and your many statements to the effect that you would violate such laws if they got in your way, I imagine it's quite easy for you to see yourself in DSK's shoes. Well, the laws aren't going to change for either of you, and neither is the criminal justice system. He's going to be tried under those laws and that trial will proceed just as all other trials do--whether you like it or not.

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@firefly,

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That is all that has happened in this case thus far.

No it isn't. Thousands have chipped in their twopennyworth and very revealing it has been.

By your own statements ff you should leave the thread until the trial begins. You keep saying the same things over and over.

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And, thus far, DSK has been treated exactly like everyone else charged with crimes.

No he has not. What other accused person in Judge Melissa Jackson's courtroom has been shown to the world looking like he had been living in the park for a month. That was unjust in my view and in the view of millions of Europeans.

And his position was such that he ought to have had it taken into consideration in the same way that a lady's position is taken into account in the awarding of alimony.

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@spendius,

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What other accused person in Judge Melissa Jackson's courtroom has been shown to the world looking like he had been living in the park for a month.

Oh please, he just hadn't shaved in a day or two. Every other person who is arrested and kept in a police precinct for more than a day, before appearing in front of a judge, looks pretty much the same way--a little grungy--police precincts aren't meant to house anyone for any length of time, and he was there a day longer than usual because he had to have a forensic exam. Who knows, he may not have wanted to shave--maybe his appearance wasn't the uppermost thing on his mind at that point. When he got on Rikers Island, he was able to shower and shave and he did so.

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And his position was such that he ought to have had it taken into consideration

His position was that of a person under arrest and in police custody--and, in that regard, he was treated just like everyone else in a similar position.

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@firefly,

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His position was that of a person under arrest and in police custody--and, in that regard, he was treated just like everyone else in a similar position.

And you are aware that neither spendius nor I approve of DSK being treated by the law like any common street bum would be treated. We would like him treated more on par with how Barack Obama would be treated, DSK though his lifetime of public service has earned it.

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@firefly,

If you are going to obsess about "everyone" being treated in a similar manner I think the 900,000 homeless kids in the US are more worthy of your attention. We know they are innocent. I know they are of no help for you to row your boat ashore but that's no excuse.

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he was treated just like everyone else in a similar position.

That's a tautology. A similar position cannot help but be the same for everyone.

You've dodged the alimony question eh? That's what is so revealing you know.

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@hawkeye10,

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And you are aware that neither spendius nor I approve of DSK being treated by the law like any common street bum would be treated. We would like him treated more on par with how Barack Obama would be treated, DSK though his lifetime of public service has earned it.

Fortunately, our criminal justice system is fairer than either you or Spendius--it considers everyone equal in the eyes of the law. He was treated just like everyone else.

His "lifetime of public service" was irrelevant as to why he was arrested and in police custody. He was arrested for very serious criminal charges--violent felonies--why should he receive any different treatment than anyone else arrested on such charges? What makes him different from "any common street bum" who has been arrested for similar violent felonies? His status in court is only that of someone charged with very serious crimes--the status he enjoyed outside of that court really is irrelevant to the legal proceedings.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Quote:
And you are aware that neither spendius nor I approve of DSK being treated by the law like any common street bum would be treated. We would like him treated more on par with how Barack Obama would be treated, DSK though his lifetime of public service has earned it.

Fortunately, our criminal justice system is fairer than either you or Spendius--it considers everyone equal in the eyes of the law. He was treated just like everyone else.

His "lifetime of public service" was irrelevant as to why he was arrested and in police custody. He was arrested for very serious criminal charges--violent felonies--why should he receive any different treatment than anyone else arrested on such charges? What makes him different from "any common street bum" who has been arrested for similar violent felonies? His status in court is only that of someone charged with very serious crimes--the status he enjoyed outside of that court really is irrelevant to the legal proceedings.

All of which goes to show that your concept of "justice" and "Equal" are very small bore, it is the product of a small mind. When the Europeans talk abut their disgust with American approach, about how Americans lack grace and dignity and civility, your posts here could serve as the example number one for all that is wrong with the American value system.

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@hawkeye10,

It is frightening no matter what the status you had achieved over a lifetime of being a good and useful citizen one woman word can ruin your life and have you lock up as if you was a person with a long criminal record.

That is not the kind of justice any sane male would wish to exist in this society that for sure. Guilty under proven innocent and even if found not guilty by a jury as Firefly pointed out you still should be assume to had been guilty in fact.

No way of clearing your name at all after being charge with such a crime.

If DSK is not safe from having just the charge of a sexual assault ruin his life then no man in the country is safe from the whim of any woman.

Any man who is a customer of any New York hotel unless you have a wife along with you 24/7 is at the mercy of any hotel maid.

I guess the only defense is to tip very well indeed. Drunk

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@BillRM,

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It is frightening no matter what your status you had achieved over a lifetime one woman word can ruin your life and have you lock up as if you was a person with a long criminal record.

That no matter how much good you do for hundreds of millions of people over decades let one woman accuse you of sexual trespass and we the collective will destroy your life with glee and smug self righteousness. But then this is how women think right Bill, it is all about the latest thing, 20-30 years of being a good guy does not count if they decide that we men were assholes last night. It is only fitting that our "justice" system now apes the behavior of women, and that so far too few men have possessed the stones required to object.

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@hawkeye10,

Oh, and the word that encapsulates Firefly is "peevish" , which she attempts to coat with a fake patina of reasonableness.

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@hawkeye10,

God can you picture yourself being a very high profile male such as Bill Gates?

Talk about walking around with a target on his back 24/7.

Any prosecutor would wet his pants with the idea of bringing sexual assault charges against such a man.

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@firefly,

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he was treated just like everyone else in a similar position.

Yeah --well--let's start with the 900,000 homeless kids eh? The cleaning woman can obviously take care of herself. Those kids can't. You looked like a third world country when those little girls queued up to cup their hands for five going off grapes. Hundreds of them. In a US school. In Las Vegas.

It was your lot who engineeered the charges being considered "very serious". I'm not saying that they are not of significance but "very serious" is far fetched imo. The situation in Syria is very serious. I daresay it's pretty bad back in Guinea.

I hold no brief for DSK. $3 grand a night off the taxpayers is out of order. What's the Sofitel hotel for ff? Working there on $60k is getting a cut of the action. Most cleaning women are not on anywhere near that. How does an immigrant from Guinea get herself onto such a gravy train from a flat start? I bet that Principal of the school in Vegas who cried through most of the interview isn't on that. So what extra services did the cleaning woman provide to justify such a salary with no 'ology majors on her CV?

I bet Mame wasn't on $60k cooking for a bunch of oil drillers in the outback and I'll double the bet that not a one of them laid a finger on her without her permission which I have no doubt she withheld.

If you carry on in this vein I might just start telling you some home truths.

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@spendius,

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I bet Mame wasn't on $60k cooking for a bunch of oil drillers in the outback and I'll double the bet that not a one of them laid a finger on her without her permission which I have no doubt she withheld.

Yes, well Mame is not the victim type even though we know full well that she lives in a culture where men are from the get go potential abusers and women are from the get go potential victims. The message from the feminists that we heard over and over again during the 1970's, that what was wanted was equality, seems so quaint....and out of reach, now. Women are just as abusive as men are, but since men are stronger and do more damage when we lose control and/or lash out we cant talk about equality before the law anymore, nor attempt to get there.

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In fact, the prevailing failure to try to convict rape suspects is directly related to the way police and prosecutors treat alleged victims, their testimony and the evidence. It is telling that the media description of the alleged victim in the Strauss-Kahn case highlights her religious devotion and life struggles - factors that in many people's eyes would make her a more credible witness. But victims without those attributes are often perceived very differently. Police officers sometimes abandon a rape case because, based on initial interviews and context alone, they don't believe the alleged victim is a credible witness

Read more: http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/06/10/2053495/with-reported-rapes-the-dsk-case.html#ixzz1P1cz1Brb

OMG!! The horror!!

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Research suggests that 3 percent to 8 percent of rape complaints are false - similar to the proportion of other crime complaints. But researchers have found that police officers are much more likely to mistrust an alleged rape victim than they are to mistrust other victims, particularly if the woman alleging sexual assault doesn't conform to police notions of how a woman should act.

Read more: http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/06/10/2053495/with-reported-rapes-the-dsk-case.html#ixzz1P1danJXt

That works the other way too, so long as the woman acts the way the state expects a victim to act the state will go after a guy on nothing more than the say so of one woman...the DSK shows this well enough. Live by the sword, die by the sword I always say. The feminists demand that women get rewarded like Wall Street Bankers, that is regardless of anything going on around them they get theirs....no matter how men act or what the truth is we are supposed to assume that women are right, and that they have been abused by men.

1 Reply

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

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